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>>> I This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0808_01D162BE.811377A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very interesting discussions. Almost no one mentioned the favourable = idea of buying an entire vehicle from two trees rather than a pizza. I = suppose it was a favourable thought to all. =20 The more thought-provoking discussion re: flood plains and wind throw- = some quick thoughts before bed: Red maple flood plains!! There=E2=80=99s a beautiful example at = Jake=E2=80=99s Landing, Keji. Many such areas were = =E2=80=98hayed=E2=80=99. =20 It is well known that riparian zones were the first to be logged for ton = (square timber) and later saw logs. Ton timber consisted largely of = white pine, but also a surprising amount of large, straight yellow birch = (called black birch back then due to its advanced age and exterior = characteristics). Riparian zones also were the first areas to be = stripped of trees for agricultural lands. Rivers were the highways... = Of course flood plains were converted to agriculture. People tilled = the richest soils first. (Ask the Acadians. There were numerous = families along the Annapolis and elsewhere.) Trying to feed a family on = the harvests from poor soils (from conifer stands or poor geology) would = have been very risky in the 1700-1800s, with no welfare and no = Superstore nearby. =20 I=E2=80=99ve just spent a good deal of energy trying to encourage some = trees to re-grow along my tiny piece of land on the Annapolis River, = long ago stripped of trees and the soils tilled for agriculture. = Unfortunately, the grass now makes it nearly impossible for trees to = re-establish and banks are now slumping into the river at alarming = speed, brought on partly due to the instability of early tree removal. = I just watched the slow death of a tall, remaining elm on the banks last = summer. Most of the elm have already fallen into the river. Very sad. = =20 Species of tree roots are not all the same. Shallow roots of spruce and = balsam fir are not very valuable as nutrient pumps (and blow over very = easily), but hardwoods and the tap roots of pine are another story. I = knew a friend who planted ginseng under sugar maple. At night the great = sugar maples pumped water (and nutrients) from down deep to the surface. = The ginseng flourished. =20 Flood plains can receive soil enrichment from both sediments during = flooding and from deep rooted trees that may line riparian communities = where conditions are right. Too much water=3D grasses, sedges, maybe = ericaceous, okay,... but periodic flooding is just fine for some trees. =20 I suppose I=E2=80=99ll never get to see blue cohosh, but I=E2=80=99d = like to. We lost our richest hardwoods so long ago, it is difficult to = imagine what the Annapolis Valley must have been like. A = botanist=E2=80=99s dream. =20 From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca = [mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of Nicholas Hill Sent: February-08-16 7:42 PM To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca Subject: Re: [NatureNS] two trees to buy a pizza or would we rather a = car with the same two trees? =20 as you will =20 =20 =20 =20 On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 5:06 PM, David & Alison Webster = <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote: Nick, I am not aware of any ot these places being wooded then and = subsequently converted to agriculture. I do recall collecting in = hardwoods on Salmon ancient floodplains, well above 50s flood levels, = soon to be stripped for gravel; not agriculture. Meadows which frequently flood in summer and are nearly always = flooded over winter don't support trees. DW=20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Nicholas Hill <mailto:fernhillns@gmail.com> =20 To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20 Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [NatureNS] two trees to buy a pizza or would we rather a = car with the same two trees? =20 you guys back in the EC Smith days covered the province...=20 Oxford's R Phillip, Meander, Kennetcook, Gaspereau Salmon...we can go on and we should =20 Wherever it was fertile =20 =20 =20 On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 3:25 PM, David & Alison Webster = <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote: Hi Nick, Where were floodplains converted to agriculture in NS ? A smattering = in NB but none is NS that I am aware of. Some Salmon River floodplains = were mined for gravel when the 100 series highways were built near there = and I think some floodplains near Oxford were mined.=20 Floodplains are enriched by the silt deposited by floodwaters each = year; e.g. Nile, Tigrus not by trees which may take advantage of the = enriched soil. Yt, DW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Nicholas Hill <mailto:fernhillns@gmail.com> =20 To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20 Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [NatureNS] two trees to buy a pizza or would we rather a = car with the same two trees? =20 Hey John yes tree roots are purported to be amazing N and P pumps and can take up = nutrients before they reach waterways..90% range according to Maltby who = was working on big rivers of Europe. when you lose trees you lose these pumps and go to lower functional = states and herbaceous plants arent a lick on trees. =20 The tree was an engineer of floodplains in big ways and we lost a lot of = that when we converted floodplain for agriculture. This floodplain = forest is what supports a good group of the Appalachian Deciduous Forest = species..bloodroot, blue cohosh Canada violet (?) wild coffee, Canada = Lily, wild garlic, yellow violets, toothwort, Solomon's plume..and this = is the habitat we need right now to let us preserve the diversity that = is expanding northward and may be eliminated from Kentucky in time. I'm = looking forward to being able to eat pawpaws, crush spicebush leaves and = swing on forest grape vines in my nineties in Nova Scotia but first we = need to secure and restore floodplain habitat. =20 must be midwinter=20 =20 =20 On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 2:05 PM, David & Alison Webster = <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote: Hi John & All, Any deep-rooted plant will move nutrients to the surface if that is = what you mean. Grasses are in general better than trees because their = fine roots can penetrate the pores of rigid soils not accessible to tree = roots. This is why Agropyron repens (Couch) is such a vigorous weed. And = why the fertility of Prairie soil is immense. Yt, DW =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John and Nhung <mailto:nhungjohn@eastlink.ca> =20 To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20 Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 12:06 PM Subject: RE: [NatureNS] two trees to buy a pizza or would we rather a = car with the same two trees? =20 When I was a CUSO volunteer in Northeast Thailand, thirty-odd years ago, = our country Director (a soil scientist by training) called trees = =E2=80=9Cnutrient pumps.=E2=80=9D =20 =20 Made eminent sense in an a