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Starlings)&nbsp --_000_049D939564B04705814EA54D1B6569B0dalca_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of the other problems with cats is that they are competing with native = animals for food. So yes, there are other things that prey on birds, but th= ey don't have a home to go to where they can get food=85 At least we had someone at the talk in Wolfville and in Kings County roamin= g cats are treated exactly life roaming dogs. You can call to complain and = have them trapped. That raises another issue that Helene brought up. It use= d to be considered OK for people to let dogs run free. You den't see that a= ny more because people have realised it is not a good idea. Pat On Jan 24, 2016, at 5:57 PM, rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca<mailto:rita.paul@ns.= sympatico.ca> wrote: And no doubt Patrick, raptors on roosts, fox and other native predators wouldn't kill birds! Is that what you saying? The cure would be worse than the decease! Enjoy the winter Paul On January 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM Patrick Kelly <Patrick.Kelly@Dal.Ca<mailto:P= atrick.Kelly@Dal.Ca>> wrote: As Helene point out in her presentation to the Blomidon naturalist Society,= barn cats can easily be replaced by raptors (given a few places to perch) = , fox,, and other native predators=85 On Jan 24, 2016, at 4:26 PM, rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca<mailto:rita.paul@ns.= sympatico.ca> wrote: Nick - that's what barn cats are for - keeping populations of rodents and flying rodents under control. Pigeons, starlings sparrows - the English kind are all rodents. The cats help keep a barn clean and do their best work at night when its dark! Imagion telling a farmer to lock up his cats at night - near as bad as the fellow who wanted the farmer to delay cutting his hay for some reaso= n! Enjoy the winter Paul On January 24, 2016 at 1:37 PM Nicholas Hill < fernhillns@gmail.com<mailto:= fernhillns@gmail.com>> wrote: yes Darrell, they have an impact. My point is that this factor is overblown= and is not put in context of the many other factors that are truly reducin= g bird populations in the temperate region: climate change land use (e.g. short rotation forestry) pesticides oil? Cats, cars, windturbines, reflective glass would be minor in comparison and= I'd suggest we first focus on the major causes of decline and then look at= tempering the minor threats which we are not going to fully eliminate as t= hey are part of our life style: 1. Cat--keep cat in at night, fix feral cats and get them places 2. Car--slow down..I killed a swallow last year when in what I thought was = a hurry 3. Windturbines--research placement of windmills out of flight pathways 4, Glass--hard to know how to reduce bird impacts on existing windows, this= national geographic article discusses some ways http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/11/141113-bird-safe-glass-wi= ndow-collision-animals-science/ We won't get anywhere legislating that cats be not allowed out but increasi= ng attention on barn populations and making people responsible (or finding = funding for) for fixing barn cats on their property, then suggesting that o= wners keep their cats in at dusk and night, will have impacts. Currently, t= his negative focus on cats creates the impression that a biodiversity crisi= s is the fault of cats not their humans who may also drive cars profligatel= y and eat crops grown using neonicotinoids. Nick On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 11:43 AM, <darrell@abolitphotos.ca<mailto:darrell@a= bolitphotos.ca>> wrote: I disagree Nick, any animal can become a pest and cats and their irresponsi= ble owners are exactly that. Myself, living in the countryside where cats a= re brought to barns and dropped off and many owners letting them roam free,= I have seen many birds killed. Seen one cat jump up on a cloths line to ki= ll a saw-whet owl. An impressive predator but way too many (all) at loose i= n the daytime and night. Dog owners are not allowed to let their animals/pr= edators roam free and neither should cat owners. No pet should be allowed t= o roam free to kill at will, period. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:24:43 -0400, Don MacNeill < donmacneill@bellaliant.n= et<mailto:donmacneill@bellaliant.net>> wrote: I agree Nick. Don Don MacNeill donmacneill@bellaliant.net<mailto:donmacneill@bellaliant.net> On 24/01/2016 10:37 AM, Nicholas Hill wrote: Grayson and Calver (2004, Regulation of cat ownership to protect urban wild= life: a justification based on the precautionary approach. Royal Zoological= Society NSW 169-178) found previously that Cat Density was not a predicto= r of passerine numbers but that distance to bushland and the density of urb= an housing were (both negative factors). In the study cited above (regulat= ion of cat ownership etc), they conclude that "cat welfare is the key issue= in a precautionary approach for protection which respects interests of cat= owners". Cat welfare means keeping the beasts in at night and desexing the= m so that we do not have a feral cat problem. In the country here, people l= et cats breed in outbuildings and this leads to a desperate situation for t= hese cats and for wildlife. Other authors warned that conclusions drawn in Britain over the impact of c= ats (million birds and small mammals killed) were drawn from data on one si= ngle village study in Felmersham. This author (BM Fitzgerald, 1990. is cat = control needed to protect wildlife? Environmental Conservation 17: 168-169)= questioned the extrapolation which we should in a rural area like NS where= birdlife is spread widely over woodland and clearings We have 3 desexed rescue cats that are in at night and well fed. There is a= local impact on mouse, vole and shrew (no birds seen taken yet) but the po= pulation of these animals is greatly increased by the landuse round the hou= se..as was observed in Felmersham (rodents and house sparrows there). Surely all of the following factors need to be considered before we relegat= e the cat to the indoors: woodland edges..plant more trees brush piles..dont be tidy, a pile of woody debris is a refuge for small bir= ds and voles sustainable agriculture..minimize use of pesticide sprays (see the " Declin= es in insectivorous birds associated w hi levels of neonicotinoid" in Natur= e 511: 341-3 (2014) and http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/07/1= 40709-birds-insects-pesticides-insecticides-neonicotinoids-silent-spring/) Cats connect people to nature