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<a href=3D"https://www.flickr --001a113ee170633dfc052008f31e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Further to my brief note: The biting surface of the tooth provides the best clue. Many mammals (e.g. humans, bears, pigs) have biting surfaces of their cheek teeth (molars and premolars) with bumps (cusps), not ridges, so that rules out those species. Most seals are fish eaters, so they have simple, pointy teeth (just like alligators and many other fish eaters), so that rules them out (and for the same reason, the toothed whales). Then there are the animals with ridges on the biting surface of the teeth. These are largely the herbivores. The ridges are largely enamel, the spaces between, dentin. Enamel is harder than dentin, so the ridges persist, despite grinding food for their entire lives. The ridges act like the ridges on a wood file...recall cattle chew their cud....not in an up-and-down biting motion, but more of a circular motion such that the vegetation is shredded between the upper and lower cheek teeth (and the unknown tooth is a cheek tooth, not an incisor or canine). But the herbivores show different patterns of ridges. Lophodont ridges are rare...these are crosswise ridges found in tapirs, some rodents and mammoths (but not mastodons). Selenodont ridges are common. These are longitudinal ridges, often wavy, and are found in the entire deer family and cattle family. Ridges that go all over the place, like in the photo, are a blend of lophodont and selenodont, and hence known as lophoselenodont. Horses have this type of tooth. Nothing else with a tooth this size (and expected in North America) has lophoselenodont teeth. "But..." you say, "horses have ever growing teeth, not ones with individual roots!" If you look for horse teeth images, you'll find the roots don't look like one this at all. And the size of the teeth seem small for horse teeth. Hmmm... I think what we have here is a milk dentition premolar from a horse. All mammals, with minor exception, get two sets of teeth (most other vertebrates replace their teeth frequently), and horses are no exception. Perhaps anticlimactic for being found on the seashore, but that's my take on this tooth. Randy _________________________________ RF Lauff Way in the boonies of Antigonish County, NS. On 18 September 2015 at 13:45, Randy Lauff <randy.lauff@gmail.com> wrote: > My off the cuff feeling is that this is from a horse. I have an > appointment right now NOW so I'm running. I'll explain later. > > Lophoseleondont. That's the short answer! > > Stay tuned, > Randy > > _________________________________ > RF Lauff > Way in the boonies of > Antigonish County, NS. > > On 18 September 2015 at 12:21, Stephen Shaw <srshaw@dal.ca> wrote: > >> Could anyone who knows about mammal teeth please give Susan's images a >> look-over on the Flickr site, and suggest an ID for her at her e-mail >> below, plus maybe comment on the fossil idea? She lives in Pennsylvania >> but photo'd them on holiday in PEI recently. Sounds like my guessed ID >> from their littoral location was wrong, but that's no surprise to me. >> Steve (Hfx) >> ________________________________________ >> From: Susan Koomar [koomarsusan@gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 9:47 AM >> To: Stephen Shaw >> Subject: Re: FW: Marine biology - animal teeth ID inquiry >> >> Hi Stephen, >> Thank you so much for offer to share my inquiry via NatureNS. I have >> uploaded the photos to Flickr but this is my first time using that service >> so if I need to change any settings to permit access, please let me know. >> >> Here is a link to the album: >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/136249939@N08/albums/72157658709833326 >> >> I have received a few replies from biologists but the opinions vary - >> sounds like the teeth could be from a moose, horse or cow. >> >> I am especially curious to obtain additional insight on the two specimens >> since they really seem to be fossilized roots with just partial teeth >> remaining. >> >> The specimens were found on the beach at Souris on the east side of >> Prince Edward Island on Sept. 10. >> >> Thank you again - very much - for your time and assistance! >> >> Best wishes, >> Susan >> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Stephen Shaw <srshaw@dal.ca<mailto: >> srshaw@dal.ca>> wrote: >> Hi Susan, >> I do insects and am not a mammal expert at all, but the teeth are large >> and for what it's worth (not much) my amateur best guess is one of the >> seals. >> >> The point of this note is that if you get no traction from anyone at >> Dalhousie, I can put round the request on the listserve NatureNS to which I >> subscribe, where you might get better advice -- Randy Lauff at StFX >> University here specializes in things like this, and several others on this >> network of 200+ people are knowledgeable in such things. Postings to >> NatureNS unfortunately don't allow attachments, so the usual way to deal >> with that is to upload the images to one of the free image-storing photo >> sites like Flickr so others can then easily log in to view them. >> Alternatively, I could put your note round with your e-mail address and >> you'd then offer to send images privately to anyone who replies -- a bit >> more cumbersome. >> Hope you get some replies from here, though, which would be simpler for >> you. >> Steve Shaw >> ________________________________________ >> From: Biology Research Associates [BIOLOGY-RAS@KIL-LSV-1.UCIS.DAL.CA >> <mailto:BIOLOGY-RAS@KIL-LSV-1.UCIS.DAL.CA>] on behalf of Carolyn Young [ >> Carolyn.Young@DAL.CA<mailto:Carolyn.Young@DAL.CA>] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 10:10 AM >> To: BIOLOGY-RAS@KIL-LSV-1.UCIS.DAL.CA<mailto: >> BIOLOGY-RAS@KIL-LSV-1.UCIS.DAL.CA> >> Subject: FW: Marine biology - animal teeth ID inquiry >> >> From: Susan Koomar [mailto:koomarsusan@gmail.com<mailto: >> koomarsusan@gmail.com>] >> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 2:34 PM >> To: Biology Inquiries Email <biology@dal.ca<mailto:biology@dal.ca>> >> Subject: Marine biology - animal teeth ID inquiry >> >> >> Hello, >> I was recently on holiday on PEI and found two fragments of teeth while I >> was collecting sea glass on the beach at Souris. >> >> I am very curious to find out what animal these teeth came from and am >> hoping someone at your University might be able to help with identification. >> >> Attached are some photos (I can provide additional photos if that would >> be helpful). >> >> Please let me know if you can assist or if there is another resource you >> would recommend that I contact regarding this inquiry. >> >> Sincere thanks for any help you can provide! >> >> Susan Koomar >> Catasauqua, Pennsylvania >> USA >> >> >> > --001a113ee170633dfc052008f31e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Further to my brief note:<div><br></div><div>The biting su= rface of the tooth provides the best clue.</div><div><br></div><div>Many ma= mmals (e.g. humans, bears, pigs) have biting surfaces of their cheek teeth = (molars and premolars) with bumps (cusps), not ridges, so that rules out th= ose species.</div><div><br></div><div>Most seals are fish eaters, so they h= ave simple, pointy teeth (just like alligators and many other fish eaters),= so that rules them out (and for the same reason, the toothed whales).</div= ><div><br></div><div>Then there are the animals with ridges on the biting s= urface of the teeth. These are largely the herbivores. The ridges are large= ly enamel, the spaces between, dentin. Enamel is harder than dentin, so the= ridges persist, despite grinding food for their entire lives. The ridges a= ct like the ridges on a wood file...recall cattle chew their cud....not in = an up-and-down biting motion, but more of a circular motion such that the v= egetation is shredded between the upper and lower cheek teeth (and the unkn= own tooth is a cheek tooth, not an incisor or canine).</div><div><br></div>= <div>But the herbivores show different patterns of ridges. Lophodont ridges= are rare...these are crosswise ridges found in tapirs, some rodents and ma= mmoths (but not mastodons).</div><div><br></div><div>Selenodont ridges are = common. These are longitudinal ridges, often wavy, and are found in the ent= ire deer family and cattle family.</div><div><br></div><div>Ridges that go = all over the place, like in the photo, are a blend of lophodont and selenod= ont, and hence known as lophoselenodont. Horses have this type of tooth. No= thing else with a tooth this size (and expected in North America) has lopho= selenodont teeth.</div><div><br></div><div>"But..." you say, &quo= t;horses have ever growing teeth, not ones with individual roots!" If = you look for horse teeth images, you'll find the roots don't look l= ike one this at all. And the size of the teeth seem small for horse teeth. = Hmmm... I think what we have here is a milk dentition premolar from a horse= . All mammals, with minor exception, get two sets of teeth (most other vert= ebrates replace their teeth frequently), and horses are no exception.</div>= <div><br></div><div>Perhaps anticlimactic for being found on the seashore, = but that's my take on this tooth.</div><div><br></div><div>Randy</div><= div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"= all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">_________________________________<= br>RF Lauff<br>Way in the boonies of<br>Antigonish County, NS.</div></div> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 18 September 2015 at 13:45, Randy Lauff <= span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:randy.lauff@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl= ank">randy.lauff@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gm= ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le= ft:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">My off the cuff feeling is that this is from a hor= se. I have an appointment right now NOW so I'm running. I'll explai= n later.<div><br></div><div>Lophoseleondont. That's the short answer!</= div><div><br></div><div>Stay tuned,</div><div>Randy</div></div><div class= =3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div>______________________________= ___<br>RF Lauff<br>Way in the boonies of<br>Antigonish County, NS.</div></d= iv><div><div class=3D"h5"> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 18 September 2015 at 12:21, Stephen Shaw = <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:srshaw@dal.ca" target=3D"_blank">sr= shaw@dal.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl= e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Could a= nyone who knows about mammal teeth please give Susan's images a look-ov= er on the Flickr site, and suggest an ID for her at her e-mail below, plus = maybe comment on the fossil idea?=C2=A0 She lives in Pennsylvania but photo= 'd them on holiday in PEI recently.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Sounds like my guessed = ID from their littoral location was wrong, but that's no surprise to me= .<br> Steve (Hfx)<br> ________________________________________<br> From: Susan Koomar [<a href=3D"mailto:koomarsusan@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla= nk">koomarsusan@gmail.com</a>]<br> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 9:47 AM<br> To: Stephen Shaw<br> Subject: Re: FW: Marine biology - animal teeth ID inquiry<br> <br> Hi Stephen,<br> Thank you so much for offer to share my inquiry via NatureNS. I have upload= ed the photos to Flickr but this is my first time using that service so if = I need to change any settings to permit access, please let me know.<br> <br> Here is a link to the album:<br> <a href=3D"https://www.flickr.com/photos/136249939@N08/albums/7215765870983= 3326" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.flickr.com/photos/13= 6249939@N08/albums/72157658709833326</a><br> <br> I have received a few replies from biologists but the opinions vary - sound= s like the teeth could be from a moose, horse or cow.<br> <br> I am especially curious to obtain additional insight on the two specimens s= ince they really seem to be fossilized roots with just partial teeth remain= ing.<br> <br> The specimens were found on the beach at Souris on the east side of Prince = Edward Island on Sept. 10.<br> <br> Thank you again - very much - for your time and assistance!<br> <br> Best wishes,<br> Susan<br> <br> <br> <br> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Stephen Shaw <<a href=3D"mailto:srshaw= @dal.ca" target=3D"_blank">srshaw@dal.ca</a><mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sr= shaw@dal.ca" target=3D"_blank">srshaw@dal.ca</a>>> wrote:<br> Hi Susan,<br> I do insects and am not a mammal expert at all, but the teeth are large and= for what it's worth (not much) my amateur best guess is one of the sea= ls.<br> <br> The point of this note is that if you get no traction from anyone at Dalhou= sie, I can put round the request on the listserve NatureNS to which I subsc= ribe, where you might get better advice -- Randy Lauff at StFX University h= ere specializes in things like this, and several others on this network of = 200+ people are knowledgeable in such things.=C2=A0 Postings to NatureNS un= fortunately don't allow attachments, so the usual way to deal with that= is to upload the images to one of the free image-storing photo sites like = Flickr so others can then easily log in to view them.<br> Alternatively, I could put your note round with your e-mail address and you= 'd then offer to send images privately to anyone who replies -- a bit m= ore cumbersome.<br> Hope you get some replies from here, though, which would be simpler for you= .<br> Steve Shaw<br> ________________________________________<br> From: Biology Research Associates [<a href=3D"mailto:BIOLOGY-RAS@KIL-LSV-1.= UCIS.DAL.CA" target=3D"_blank">BIOLOGY-RAS@KIL-LSV-1.UCIS.DAL.CA</a><mai= lto:<a href=3D"mailto:BIOLOGY-RAS@KIL-LSV-1.UCIS.DAL.CA" target=3D"_blank">= BIOLOGY-RAS@KIL-LSV-1.UCIS.DAL.CA</a>>] on behalf of Carolyn Young [<a h= ref=3D"mailto:Carolyn.Young@DAL.CA" target=3D"_blank">Carolyn.Young@DAL.CA<= /a><mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Carolyn.Young@DAL.CA" target=3D"_blank">Car= olyn.Young@DAL.CA</a>>]<br> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 10:10 AM<br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:BIOLOGY-RAS@KIL-LSV-1.UCIS.DAL.CA" target=3D"_blank">= BIOLOGY-RAS@KIL-LSV-1.UCIS.DAL.CA</a><mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:BIOLOGY-R= AS@KIL-LSV-1.UCIS.DAL.CA" target=3D"_blank">BIOLOGY-RAS@KIL-LSV-1.UCIS.DAL.= CA</a>><br> Subject: FW: Marine biology - animal teeth ID inquiry<br> <br> From: Susan Koomar [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:koomarsusan@gmail.com" target= =3D"_blank">koomarsusan@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:koomarsus= an@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">koomarsusan@gmail.com</a>>]<br> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 2:34 PM<br> To: Biology Inquiries Email <<a href=3D"mailto:biology@dal.ca" target=3D= "_blank">biology@dal.ca</a><mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:biology@dal.ca" tar= get=3D"_blank">biology@dal.ca</a>>><br> Subject: Marine biology - animal teeth ID inquiry<br> <br> <br> Hello,<br> I was recently on holiday on PEI and found two fragments of teeth while I w= as collecting sea glass on the beach at Souris.<br> <br> I am very curious to find out what animal these teeth came from and am hopi= ng someone at your University might be able to help with identification.<br= > <br> Attached are some photos (I can provide additional photos if that would be = helpful).<br> <br> Please let me know if you can assist or if there is another resource you wo= uld recommend that I contact regarding this inquiry.<br> <br> Sincere thanks for any help you can provide!<br> <br> Susan Koomar<br> Catasauqua, Pennsylvania<br> USA<br> <br> <br> </blockquote></div><br></div></div></div> </blockquote></div><br></div> --001a113ee170633dfc052008f31e--
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