[NatureNS] Blue Flag

From: David & Alison Webster <dwebster@glinx.com>
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
References: <BAY173-W156EF616E8F9520BACA9DAB51F0@phx.gbl>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:13:55 -0300
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Return-Path: <naturens-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>
Original-Recipient: rfc822;"| (cd /csuite/info/Environment/FNSN/MList; /csuite/lib/arch2html)"

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Hi Paul,
    Just to add a bit to your comments; it is true that adding Aluminum =
Sulphate to soil will increase soil acidity (decrease soil pH) and =
induce blue coloration in Hydrangia flowers.

    But as I am sure would have been documented by Evelyn Hutchinson =
(The Biogeochemistry of Aluminum, Biological Reviews ~1950) elevated =
Al+++ ion activity causes the blue coloration, not elevated H+ activity. =


    Drawing on memory nearly 30 years faint; H+ and Al+++ ions have a =
yin/yang relationship in natural soils. Increasing soil acidity by e.g. =
adding elemental Sulphur (on a weight basis 6 times as effective as =
Aluminum Sulphate) also leads to an increase in Al+++ activity because =
H+ ions displace adsorbed Al+++ from soil colloids. Conversely, adding =
Al+++ ions (e.g. as Aluminum Sulphate) increases soil acidity by =
displacing adsorbed H+.

    Yt, Dave Webster. Kentville
  ----- Original Message -----=20


  From: Paul MacDonald=20
  To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
  Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 8:32 AM
  Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Blue Flag


  Hi All
  The change from blue to white flowers is often as a result of the ph =
of the soil. A low ph produces blue flowers - a high ph white flowers. =
Hydrangea are especially sensitive in this way so perhaps Blue Flags =
also. Local garden centers sell aluminum sulphate for to keep hydrangea =
blue - it might work with Flags.
  May your flags always be blue=20
  Paul



  On Monday, June 23, 2014 5:55:38 PM, Nancy P Dowd =
<nancypdowd@gmail.com> wrote:




  I know little about plants but if her Blue Flag was bought from a =
nursery it was probably selected and/or hybridized along the way to get =
the desired plant. Sometimes these "created" plants revert back to some =
kind of default colour- white in this case.


  For example, 10yrs ago I bought my mother a perennial Columbine (comes =
up from the roots rather than self-seeding like the wild ones do, I =
think). I purchased it b/c I liked the two-toned flowers (yellow and =
maroon if I remember correctly). It was fine the year put in but has =
come up the typical Columbine purple ever since.=20


  I do not know why this happens. But maybe something similar is going =
on with the Blue (now White) Flag?


  Nancy=20

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Jun 22, 2014, at 11:05 PM, James Hirtle <jrhbirder@hotmail.com> =
wrote:


    Hi all:
    =20
    I was at a friends place this evening.  She has blue flag in her =
garden as well as the yellow hybrid.  She has taken root cuttings off =
the normal blue flag, and has transplanted them.  The flowers =
interestingly enough have been coming in as white the last few years and =
every year fill in as whiter.  They are now coming in as pure white =
rather then blue.  Has anyone else ever heard of this happening and the =
reason for it. =20
    =20
    James R. Hirtle
    Bridgewater
    =20





  No virus found in this message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 2014.0.4714 / Virus Database: 3972/7731 - Release Date: =
06/23/14

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588"></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi Paul,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Just to add a bit to your comments; it is true =
that=20
adding Aluminum Sulphate to soil will increase soil acidity (decrease =
soil pH)=20
and induce blue coloration in&nbsp;Hydrangia flowers.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; But as I am sure would have been documented by =
Evelyn=20
Hutchinson (The Biogeochemistry of Aluminum, Biological Reviews=20
~1950)&nbsp;elevated Al+++ ion activity causes the blue coloration, not =
elevated=20
H+ activity. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Drawing on memory nearly 30 years faint; H+ and =
Al+++=20
ions have a yin/yang relationship in natural soils. Increasing soil =
acidity by=20
e.g. adding elemental Sulphur (on a weight basis 6 times as effective as =

Aluminum Sulphate) also leads to an increase in Al+++ activity because =
H+ ions=20
displace adsorbed Al+++ from soil colloids. Conversely, adding Al+++ =
ions (e.g.=20
as Aluminum Sulphate) increases soil acidity by displacing adsorbed =
H+.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yt, Dave Webster. Kentville</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dpaulrita2001@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:paulrita2001@yahoo.com">Paul=20
  MacDonald</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dnaturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
  href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 24, 2014 =
8:32=20
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NatureNS] Blue =
Flag</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; COLOR: #000; =
FONT-SIZE: 14pt">
  <DIV><SPAN>Hi All</SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN>The change from blue to white flowers is often as a result =
of the=20
  ph of the soil. A low ph produces blue flowers - a high ph white =
flowers.=20
  Hydrangea are especially sensitive in this way so perhaps Blue Flags =
also.=20
  Local garden centers sell aluminum sulphate for to keep hydrangea blue =
- it=20
  might work with Flags.</SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN>May your flags always be blue </SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN>Paul</SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DqtdSeparateBR><BR><BR></DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"DISPLAY: block" class=3Dyahoo_quoted>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, =
Lucida Grande, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, =
Lucida Grande, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
  <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>On Monday, June 23, 2014 =
5:55:38 PM,=20
  Nancy P Dowd &lt;nancypdowd@gmail.com&gt; =
wrote:<BR></FONT></DIV><BR><BR>
  <DIV class=3Dy_msg_container>
  <DIV id=3Dyiv0074268488>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>I know little about plants but if her Blue Flag was bought from a =
nursery=20
  it was probably selected and/or hybridized along the way to get the =
desired=20
  plant. Sometimes these "created" plants revert back to some kind of =
default=20
  colour- white in this case.</DIV>
  <DIV><BR clear=3Dnone></DIV>
  <DIV>For example, 10yrs ago I bought my mother a perennial Columbine =
(comes up=20
  from the roots rather than self-seeding like the wild ones do, I =
think). I=20
  purchased it b/c I liked the two-toned flowers (yellow and maroon if I =

  remember correctly). It was fine the year put in but has come up the =
typical=20
  Columbine purple ever since.&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><BR clear=3Dnone></DIV>
  <DIV>I do not know why this happens. But maybe something similar is =
going on=20
  with the Blue (now White) Flag?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR clear=3Dnone></DIV>
  <DIV>Nancy&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><BR clear=3Dnone>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
  <DIV id=3Dyiv0074268488yqt13010 class=3Dyiv0074268488yqt2379474340>
  <DIV><BR clear=3Dnone>On Jun 22, 2014, at 11:05 PM, James Hirtle =
&lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:jrhbirder@hotmail.com" shape=3Drect rel=3Dnofollow =
target=3D_blank=20
  ymailto=3D"mailto:jrhbirder@hotmail.com">jrhbirder@hotmail.com</A>&gt; =
wrote:<BR=20
  clear=3Dnone><BR clear=3Dnone></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <DIV>
    <STYLE>#yiv0074268488 #yiv0074268488 -- yiv0074268488hmmessage P {
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    <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT size=3D6>Hi all:</FONT><BR =
clear=3Dnone>&nbsp;<BR=20
    clear=3Dnone><FONT size=3D6>I was at a friends place this =
evening.&nbsp; She has=20
    blue flag in her garden as well as the yellow hybrid.&nbsp; She has =
taken=20
    root cuttings off the normal blue flag, and has transplanted =
them.&nbsp; The=20
    flowers interestingly enough have been coming in as white the last =
few years=20
    and every year fill in as whiter.&nbsp; They are now coming in as =
pure white=20
    rather then blue.&nbsp; Has anyone else ever heard of this happening =
and the=20
    reason for it.&nbsp; </FONT><BR clear=3Dnone><FONT =
size=3D6></FONT>&nbsp;<BR=20
    clear=3Dnone><FONT size=3D6>James R. Hirtle</FONT><BR =
clear=3Dnone><FONT=20
    size=3D6>Bridgewater</FONT><BR clear=3Dnone><FONT size=3D6>&nbsp;<BR =

    id=3Dyiv0074268488FontBreak clear=3Dnone></FONT><BR=20
  =
clear=3Dnone></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR></DIV></D=
IV></DIV></DIV></DIV><A></A>
  <P align=3Dleft color=3D"#000000" avgcert??>No virus found in this=20
  message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2014.0.4714 / =
Virus=20
  Database: 3972/7731 - Release Date: =
06/23/14</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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