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>>>> to have photographed or video-d it. But I agree, n
On 12/21/2011 7:34 PM, James W. Wolford wrote:
> Steve Shaw asked: can anyone think of real 'natural' vertebrate example
> that involves species that are different, like the fanciful crow-merlin
> example? The two species' behaviours presumably would have to have
> co-evolved, rather unlikely.
* Bernd Hienrich, in his book "Every story you've heard about Ravens is
True" (printed as "The mind of the Raven"), says Ravens are evolved as
symbionts of Wolves, and lead Wolves to their prey, just as they're
often said to lead human hunters to prey.
fred.
===========================================================
>
> Of the top of my head, I would suggest various birds like honey-guides
> that attract and follow honey badgers in Africa? to get honey (after the
> honey badger finishes a raid on a hymenopterous nest. And I once saw a
> documentary video concerning cooperatively-hunting clans of Hawks in the
> desert going after cottontail rabbits and perhaps hares, and mammals
> like coyotes? joining in the hunt -- the hawks share their prey among
> themselves, but the opportunistic coyote might get away with the prize.
> Another video on PBS showed on the Tibetan Plateau two mammals together
> hunting pikas (rodent-like relatives of rabbits and hares) -- Tibetan
> brown bear and Tibetan fox -- the bear dug up the burrows, and the fox
> was shown to note the escaping pika and grab and eat it quickly.
>
> Cheers from Jim in Wolfville.
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> *From: *"Stephen R. Shaw" <srshaw@Dal.Ca <mailto:srshaw@Dal.Ca>>
>> *Date: *December 21, 2011 7:35:26 PM AST
>> *To: *naturens@chebucto.ns.ca <mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
>> *Subject: **Re: [NatureNS] woodpecker, crow, merlin story -- was A
>> bird affair...*
>> *Reply-To: *naturens@chebucto.ns.ca <mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
>>
>> Re. Jane's second fun thought, while there's no sound evidence of
>> anything resembling 'telepathy' anywhere, despite searches in the
>> early 20th century that have since fizzled out, there are quite a few
>> well known signals that animals do send and receive that are outside
>> the human range of detectability. For example, ultrasound (in bats,
>> leps, some katydids), infrared light (in certain snakes, some
>> buprestid beetles), ultraviolet light (many insects, hummingbirds),
>> plane polarized light, electric fields in water (sharks, 'electric
>> fish', platypus), specific pheromones (many insects), carbon dioxide.
>> The ability to detect low strength magnetic fields and even
>> infra-sound should probably be added.
>>
>> Regarding the first thought on cooperativity, perhaps more
>> interesting, to have two different species share a natural foraging
>> strategy would require that each get more out of it than either could
>> gain alone. Most of the seemingly at-first-sight cases like
>> lions-hyenas-jackals-vultures or bears-wolves, are cases where one
>> animal takes over a resource obtained by the other, not one of mutual
>> extra benefit. There are real examples from insects, for example ants
>> tending aphid herds and presumably affording them protection while
>> gaining honeydew in return, or the ant-acacia bush connection (a shrub
>> in this case, and not directly about food). I can't think immediately
>> of any vertebrate example apart from the unique case of Old Tom
>> (killer whale-human). He was a particular orca that herded other
>> migratng whales (Minke?) into an Australian bay near the town of Eden,
>> where the local whalers could more easily kill them. The benefit to
>> Tom was that he was always given the whale's tongue after the kill, so
>> it was presumably a learned behaviour for a reward, not innate. It
>> ended badly. Likewise, falconry, or foxhound hunting may exploit
>> natural behaviors but involve rewards for learning some task.
>>
>> There are lots of examples of such behaviours between genetically
>> related individuals of the same species, such as sharing food with
>> offspring, or colony protection (terns) or 'atruistic' sacrifice by
>> one individual that can be offset by benefits to the genes of another
>> member (classic case is the honeybee, explained genetically by the
>> late W.D. Hamilton).
>>
>> Christmas quiz: can anyone think of real 'natural' vertebrate example
>> that involves species that are different, like the fanciful
>> crow-merlin example? The two species' behaviours presumably would have
>> to have co-evolved, rather unlikely.
>> Steve (Halifax)
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>>> ---- Dave&Jane Schlosberg <dschlosb-g@ns.sympatico.ca
>>>> <mailto:dschlosb-g@ns.sympatico.ca>> wrote:
>>>>> What I’m wondering is, do you think the crow and the merlin were in
>>>>> kahoots? Perhaps they shared the plunder, back at the clubhouse....
>>>>> just like the boys in Oliver Twist. I’m thinking more and more, as
>>>>> I watch the birds at the feeders, that they can do telepathy .
>>>>> Oh well, a fun thought...
>>>>> Jane
>>
>> Quoting "James W. Wolford" <jimwolford@EastLink.ca
>> <mailto:jimwolford@EastLink.ca>>:
>>
>>> Manny or most of Nature's creatures, esp. predators and scavengers,
>>> are opportunistic, and the crow-mediated damage to the woodpecker
>>> plus the escape presented a great opportunity for the merlin. And I'm
>>> sure there are lots of similar but unwitnessed stories like this all
>>> around us all the time.
>>>
>>> Regarding Richard's comments below, I don't know of algae that
>>> consume bacteria, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there are
>>> some, given Nature's huge inventory of diverse life-cycles.
>>>
>>> Cheers from Jim in Wolfville.
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>> From: duartess@ns.sympatico.ca <mailto:duartess@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>>> Date: December 21, 2011 2:45:15 PM AST
>>>> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca <mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
>>>> Cc: Dave&Jane Schlosberg <dschlosb-g@ns.sympatico.ca
>>>> <mailto:dschlosb-g@ns.sympatico.ca>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Fwd: A bird affair...
>>>> Reply-To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca <mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Having re-read what I wrote & how it sounded, it was certainly
>>>> overly sentimental and guess I might have sounded like one of those
>>>> wacko Animal Rights activist. YIKES!! Must admit, I too wished
>>>> someone could have been there to photograph this event too.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, Cheers to all!
>>>>
>>>> Gayle MacLean
>>>> Dartmouth
>>>>
>>
>>>>> From: Richard Stern
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 9:35 PM
>>>>> To: duartess@ns.sympatico.ca <mailto:duartess@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>>>> Cc: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca <mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Fwd: A bird affair...
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I don't think it's shocking or sad, and I would love to
>>>>> have photographed or video-d it. But I agree, nature doesn't follow
>>>>> what people think of as cute or kind. Merlins like to eat
>>>>> woodpeckers, woodpeckers like to eat insect larvae, insect larvae
>>>>> like to eat algae, algae like to eat bacteria, and if you're a
>>>>> bacterium-lover, you'd probably think algae were cruel or shocking.
>>>>> It's all just nature's way of preserving the individual and
>>>>> propagating the species.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers - Richard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:08 PM, <duartess@ns.sympatico.ca
>>>>> <mailto:duartess@ns.sympatico.ca>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, how shocking and very sad for your friend to have witnessed
>>>>> this, but, that's nature, and nature's way. Beautiful, but hard,
>>>>> and completely unforgiving.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gayle MacLean
>>>>> Dartmouth
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---- Richard Stern <sternrichard@gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:sternrichard@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A photographer friend sent me this the other day - thought I'd
>>>>>> share it
>>>>>> with NatureNS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Richard:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just had to share this story with you....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Last week I was walking our dog past a neighbour's yard and heard a
>>>>>> commotion. I turned and saw a crow (raven?) attacking a small
>>>>>> Woodpecker...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The woodpecker managed to escape and flew directly toward me, a little
>>>>>> unstable and chirping the whole time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It then flew right by by me and almost across the road, when a
>>>>>> merlin come
>>>>>> out of nowhere and snatched it up in midair & up out of sight. No more
>>>>>> chirping from the woodpecker.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The whole event took about 5 seconds: I was dumbfounded, alone,
>>>>>> and amazed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thought you'd like to know!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Happy Holidays...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> #################
>>>>>> Richard Stern,
>>>>>> Port Williams, NS, Canada
>>>>>> sternrichard@gmail.com <mailto:sternrichard@gmail.com>
>>>>>> ###################
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
fred
------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
Bishops Mills Natural History Centre - http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm
Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm
Daily Paintings - http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/
South Nation Basin Art & Science Book
http://pinicola.ca/books/SNR_book.htm
RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
(613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca/
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