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--Boundary_(ID_1RBBepSVcVX7DTDsHrGQfw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Steve Shaw asked: can anyone think of real 'natural' vertebrate =20 example that involves species that are different, like the fanciful =20 crow-merlin example? The two species' behaviours presumably would =20 have to have co-evolved, rather unlikely. Of the top of my head, I would suggest various birds like honey-=20 guides that attract and follow honey badgers in Africa? to get honey =20 (after the honey badger finishes a raid on a hymenopterous nest. And =20= I once saw a documentary video concerning cooperatively-hunting clans =20= of Hawks in the desert going after cottontail rabbits and perhaps =20 hares, and mammals like coyotes? joining in the hunt -- the hawks =20 share their prey among themselves, but the opportunistic coyote might =20= get away with the prize. Another video on PBS showed on the Tibetan =20 Plateau two mammals together hunting pikas (rodent-like relatives of =20 rabbits and hares) -- Tibetan brown bear and Tibetan fox -- the bear =20 dug up the burrows, and the fox was shown to note the escaping pika =20 and grab and eat it quickly. Cheers from Jim in Wolfville. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Stephen R. Shaw" <srshaw@Dal.Ca> > Date: December 21, 2011 7:35:26 PM AST > To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca > Subject: Re: [NatureNS] woodpecker, crow, merlin story -- was A =20 > bird affair... > Reply-To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca > > Re. Jane's second fun thought, while there's no sound evidence of =20 > anything resembling 'telepathy' anywhere, despite searches in the =20 > early 20th century that have since fizzled out, there are quite a =20 > few well known signals that animals do send and receive that are =20 > outside the human range of detectability. For example, ultrasound =20 > (in bats, leps, some katydids), infrared light (in certain snakes, =20 > some buprestid beetles), ultraviolet light (many insects, =20 > hummingbirds), plane polarized light, electric fields in water =20 > (sharks, 'electric fish', platypus), specific pheromones (many =20 > insects), carbon dioxide. The ability to detect low strength =20 > magnetic fields and even infra-sound should probably be added. > > Regarding the first thought on cooperativity, perhaps more =20 > interesting, to have two different species share a natural foraging =20= > strategy would require that each get more out of it than either =20 > could gain alone. Most of the seemingly at-first-sight cases like =20 > lions-hyenas-jackals-vultures or bears-wolves, are cases where one =20 > animal takes over a resource obtained by the other, not one of =20 > mutual extra benefit. There are real examples from insects, for =20 > example ants tending aphid herds and presumably affording them =20 > protection while gaining honeydew in return, or the ant-acacia bush =20= > connection (a shrub in this case, and not directly about food). I =20 > can't think immediately of any vertebrate example apart from the =20 > unique case of Old Tom (killer whale-human). He was a particular =20 > orca that herded other migratng whales (Minke?) into an Australian =20 > bay near the town of Eden, where the local whalers could more =20 > easily kill them. The benefit to Tom was that he was always given =20 > the whale's tongue after the kill, so it was presumably a learned =20 > behaviour for a reward, not innate. It ended badly. Likewise, =20 > falconry, or foxhound hunting may exploit natural behaviors but =20 > involve rewards for learning some task. > > There are lots of examples of such behaviours between genetically =20 > related individuals of the same species, such as sharing food with =20 > offspring, or colony protection (terns) or 'atruistic' sacrifice by =20= > one individual that can be offset by benefits to the genes of =20 > another member (classic case is the honeybee, explained genetically =20= > by the late W.D. Hamilton). > > Christmas quiz: can anyone think of real 'natural' vertebrate =20 > example that involves species that are different, like the fanciful =20= > crow-merlin example? The two species' behaviours presumably would =20 > have to have co-evolved, rather unlikely. > Steve (Halifax) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >>> ---- Dave&Jane Schlosberg <dschlosb-g@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: >>>> What I=92m wondering is, do you think the crow and the merlin =20 >>>> were in kahoots? Perhaps they shared the plunder, back at the =20= >>>> clubhouse.... just like the boys in Oliver Twist. I=92m =20 >>>> thinking more and more, as I watch the birds at the feeders, =20 >>>> that they can do telepathy . >>>> Oh well, a fun thought... >>>> Jane > > Quoting "James W. Wolford" <jimwolford@EastLink.ca>: > >> Manny or most of Nature's creatures, esp. predators and =20 >> scavengers, are opportunistic, and the crow-mediated damage to =20 >> the woodpecker plus the escape presented a great opportunity for =20 >> the merlin. And I'm sure there are lots of similar but =20 >> unwitnessed stories like this all around us all the time. >> >> Regarding Richard's comments below, I don't know of algae that =20 >> consume bacteria, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there =20 >> are some, given Nature's huge inventory of diverse life-cycles. >> >> Cheers from Jim in Wolfville. >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: duartess@ns.sympatico.ca >>> Date: December 21, 2011 2:45:15 PM AST >>> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca >>> Cc: Dave&Jane Schlosberg <dschlosb-g@ns.sympatico.ca> >>> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Fwd: A bird affair... >>> Reply-To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> Having re-read what I wrote & how it sounded, it was certainly =20 >>> overly sentimental and guess I might have sounded like one of =20 >>> those wacko Animal Rights activist. YIKES!! Must admit, I too =20 >>> wished someone could have been there to photograph this event too. >>> >>> Anyway, Cheers to all! >>> >>> Gayle MacLean >>> Dartmouth >>> > >>>> From: Richard Stern >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 9:35 PM >>>> To: duartess@ns.sympatico.ca >>>> Cc: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca >>>> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Fwd: A bird affair... >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Personally I don't think it's shocking or sad, and I would love =20 >>>> to have photographed or video-d it. But I agree, n