[NatureNS] Wasp mimic or is it?

References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060908230356.01e3cea8@pop1.ns.sympatico.ca> <20060910203604.7uly3t50g1esg8s4@my2.dal.ca>
From: Christopher Majka <c.majka@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 21:31:47 -0300
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Hi folks,

This looks to me like Polistes fuscatus - a wasp - and not a wasp  
mimic at all. Photos are available at:

http://www.cirrusimage.com/Bees_wasp_Polistes_fuscatus.htm

Cheers,

Chris

On 10-Sep-06, at 8:36 PM, Stephen Shaw wrote:

> Angus, Jean, others,
> Very nice pictures Angus, but when the mimic is very good how do  
> you know which
> is the mimic and which the model?  As devil's advocate on this, it  
> doesn't look
> like the usual syrphid fly mimics I've seen here (going by the  
> antennae) so
> presumably it would have to be a stratiomyid (Stratiomyidae,  
> soldier flies, the
> other group with many wasp mimics): this does fit with the club- 
> like antennae,
> but which also perhaps could be hymenopteran, of a mud-dauber  
> maybe.  To me,
> the extreme waist and extremely pointy back end look more wasp- 
> like, features
> that strats don't usually copy well (less of a waist and a rounded  
> abdominal
> tip).  There's enough motion blur due to take-off that you can't  
> see how many
> wings there are (looks like there could be two pairs but impossible  
> to be
> sure), and likewise can't see whether there are halteres or not.   
> So from the
> one picture alone, to me it could be either a wasp or or a mimetic  
> fly.  Did
> you get a good look at it while it was stationary to resolve this,  
> or did you
> get other pictures that you could put up?
>
> The other one on the flower appears to a biggish tachinid, also a  
> great picture.
> Steve
> Choc Lake, Halifax.
> *****************************
>
>
> Quoting Angus MacLean <angusmcl@ns.sympatico.ca>:
>> Usually the secret to good photos is recognizing the moment &  
>> reacting to it. Other times luck plays a big role. Such was the  
>> case with these two pics.
>>
>> This one catches the subject ready to lift off. One can almost  
>> feel the tension as it gets ready. (If your monitor is capable,  
>> click the "original size").
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=238045972&size=m
>>
>> This one is in the same vein but has an aesthetic quality to it.  
>> (Again click "original" for a larger pic).
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=238045953&size=m
>>
>> Angus
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Stephen R. Shaw Ph.D.
> Dept of Psychology & Neuroscience
> Dalhousie University
> 1355 Oxford Street
> Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada B3H 4J1
> e-mail: srshaw@dal.ca
> phone: 1-902-494-2047
> fax: 1-902-494-6585

_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._. 
_.
Christopher Majka - Nova Scotia Museum of Natural History
1747 Summer Street, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada  B3H 3A6
(902) 424-6435   Email <c.majka@ns.sympatico.ca>
_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._. 
_.


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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi folks,<DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span">This looks to me like <I>Polistes =
fuscatus</I> - a wasp - and not a wasp mimic at all. Photos are =
available at:</SPAN></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><A =
href=3D"http://www.cirrusimage.com/Bees_wasp_Polistes_fuscatus.htm">http:/=
/www.cirrusimage.com/Bees_wasp_Polistes_fuscatus.htm</A></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Cheers,</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Chris</DIV><DIV><BR><DIV><DIV=
>On 10-Sep-06, at 8:36 PM, Stephen Shaw wrote:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Angus, Jean, others,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Very =
nice pictures Angus, but when the mimic is very good how do you know =
which</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">is the mimic and which the =
model?<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>As devil's =
advocate on this, it doesn't look</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">like the =
usual syrphid fly mimics I've seen here (going by the antennae) =
so</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">presumably it would have to be a stratiomyid =
(Stratiomyidae, soldier flies, the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">other group =
with many wasp mimics): this does fit with the club-like =
antennae,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">but which also perhaps could be =
hymenopteran, of a mud-dauber maybe.<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>To me,</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">the extreme waist and extremely pointy back end look =
more wasp-like, features</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">that strats =
don't usually copy well (less of a waist and a rounded =
abdominal</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">tip).<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>There's enough motion blur =
due to take-off that you can't see how many</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">wings =
there are (looks like there could be two pairs but impossible to =
be</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">sure), and likewise can't see whether there are =
halteres or not.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>So from =
the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">one picture alone, to me it =
could be either a wasp or or a mimetic fly.<SPAN =
class=3D"A