IP Merge

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:30:51 -0300 (ADT)
From: Christopher Majka <nextug@is.dal.ca>
To: "Andrew D. Wright" <au141@chebucto.ns.ca>
cc: CCN Information Provider Committee <ccn-ip@chebucto.ns.ca>
Precedence: bulk
Return-Path: <ccn-ip-mml-owner@chebucto.ns.ca>

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On Thu, 12 Aug 1999, Andrew D. Wright wrote:

> 	So you're saying that since the numbers are in fact worse than I
> noted (i.e. more IPs have left the IPdb entirely and their records
> purged), that no analysis of the existing records is worthwhile.
> Interesting reasoning.

What does 'worse' mean? Worse what? There have been many inappropriate,
defunct, expired, duplicate, test, etc. applications in the IPDB. There
have also been applications which did not result in IPs or IPs that later
folded, or moved, etc. Not all of that information remains in the IPDB.
Consequently an analysis of what is there is inherently, statistically off
base.

The question is, what information are you trying to derive? A certain
percentage of applications don't go to completion. This is for a variety
of reasons: some applications simply aren't serious: others get stalled
for a variety of circumstances. If we want to improve the system we need
to know why.

I've never tried to compile statistics but I can say a fair bit based on
the all the communications I have had with stalled or withdrawn
applications given that I've spoken with just about every one.

To say:

>  the majority of dropouts from the IP process for the last three years
> have been through not completing our IP creation process. 

Is simply circular.

Another important point to understand is that we should not expect (or
perhaps even hope ;->) that every application will go to completion. Just
like the fact that every application for a user login is not always
pursued, so it is the case that not all people who one the spur of the
moment decide to do an IP application really intend to do it. Its useful
to try and find out why, which the IPDB will not tell you.

> 	The fact that the IPdb is virtually impossible to get data from
> would in most organizations be considered a Bad Thing. That you can
> consider this as rationale for keeping it the way it is can once again
> only be considered as interesting reasoning.

Keeping what the same way as it is? I never argued that the IPDB was
perfect. It's highly *imperfect*. Its not really built on databse
structures at all (rather its a flat file), it isn't properly searchable,
lacks all kinds of functionality and in places is wholly inadequate. I've
submitted a whole series of suggestions over the years on how it could be
improved. I'd be delighted to see it improved.

> > This might be a very interesting topic of inquiry either through the
> > creation of a questionnaire or a mailout to all-ips + former/non IPs. If
> > we got a reasonable rate of response we might have some useful information
> > to evaluate what the good and bad features of the IP process are. Anyone
> > want to take this on?
> 
> 	If this is what it takes to prove the point that falling numbers
> plus lower retention rate of those who do apply means that perhaps
> something is wrong and needs fixing, then fire away. You send me the
> contact information of every single IP who has ever applied to Chebucto
> and I will personally get in contact with each and every single one of
> them and ask them why they are or are not here and if not, then why not. 

If you wanted to pursue this you could discuss this with IPDB designers
(Gerard McNeil & David Trueman) or with someone like David Potter or
Michael Smith who really understand how it works. I seem to recall that
when it was introduced someone made mention of the fact that information
deleated from the IPDB is not *really* deleated, but actually continues to
exist, it's simply not (readily) visible. Thus it may be the case that
every entry for every application that was ever submitted does still
exist (somewhere). I'm not certain if this is true and if it is I haven't
any idea of how it could be accessed, however one of the above people may
know.

> 	To make the point as bluntly as I can: if we wish to stick around
> and not disappear, then we have to adapt to the new realities of the net
> and the way things are done now. We evolve or we die. The potential IP
> groups do not need to accomodate us, we need to accomodate them. 

I think it's more the case that both have to meet at a point where
legitimate concerns of both are optimally accomodated. 

However, my question is what exactly are you proposing should be done? 
Eliminate all IP Training? Discuss away. It's been a main feature of the
CCN environment but if enough people think it can be dispensed with then
that can be a compelling arguement. It would be good to canvass IP Editors
and see what they think: useful or not.

Merge the User & IP registration process? Could be done with a lot of work
but what's the advantage?

Revamp the IP Database? Great idea: you just need to find someone who will
do it.

Turf RCS? O.K. but what happens to on-line editing? N.B. If you dispense
with RCS you also lose CCN 'Recent' functionality since the scripts that
do this, work from RCS info.

> 	I expect the IP contact information as soon as you can send it
> along. I will present the numbers from that to this list as soon as
> possible. 

I don't have a better source than the (inadequate) IPDB either (except for
my own experiences and directories full of old EMail).

Cheers,

Christopher Majka

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Christopher Majka                               <aa051@chebucto.ns.ca>
Editor-in-Chief: Chebucto Community Net - Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
URL = http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Home.html

"Often his editorial policy was a nice compromise between blackmail and
begging"                - William Allen White, The Nation, Jun 18, 1938
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