[NatureNS] Stove Blacking and heat transmission

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Hi Patrick & All,

     The weather forecast indicated a need for fire this afternoon so I 
prepared a test of the 'Blacking Effect' by having the right hand half 
of the stove top freshly blackened and the left side with the previous 
blacking untouched and now slightly dull. With a brisk fire today, 
rotation was nil to intermittent on both sides of the stove.

     So I now think that the previous brisk rotation on a freshly 
blackened stove was a fluke. My improvised stand has some slack between 
the base socket and the main shaft of the angel chimes, shimmed long ago 
with thin wedges of folded Al foil, and it can naturally function 
effectively only if the main shaft is vertical. I suspect that, by 
chance, those shims were shifted during cleaning in a way that made the 
shaft essentially vertical for that brief period. Rotation today was 
often started by tipping the unit with pliers.

     Sometime this summer I will attempt to shim that slack joint 
securely so the main shaft is precisely vertical.

     YT, DW, Kentville

On 5/28/2020 3:50 PM, Patrick Kelly wrote:
> We had a set of those growing up as well, but they came in a different 
> box. Mechanically, they were pretty simple, a cone resting on a point 
> so there would be little friction. My brother and I used to flick the 
> piece that the angels hung from to see how fast we could get it going 
> before the angels flew off so it was pretty robust!
>
> One thing that I could see that might prevent it from turning is if it 
> started with one of the hanging pieces right against a chime. We ran 
> into the problem a few times when using candles. It seemed as though 
> it needed a bit of initial freedom to move before it hit a chime... 
> after that it was fine as long as the candles stayed lit. Given the 
> wariness people have of leaving candles unattended they do not seem as 
> popular now as they once were as many of my uncles and aunts had them too!
>
> Pat
>
>
> On May 28, 2020, at 3:07 PM, David Webster wrote:
>
>> CAUTION: The Sender of this email is not from within Dalhousie.
>>
>> Hi Pat,
>>
>>     I think you were replying mostly to Nancy but you reply conflicts 
>> directly with my recent experience. That stove blacking made a huge 
>> difference.
>>
>>     Whether the Angel Chimes stopped turning reliably 12 years ago, 
>> earlier or later I can not be sure; not a high priority. But in the 
>> previous 4 years, perhaps more, it just had not turned. I left it 
>> there with intent to some day take it apart to see if the unknown 
>> fault was reversible.
>>
>>     As it turned out wear of the unit, or other damage, was not the 
>> problem. And the blacking was applied so the stove would not look so 
>> neglected.
>>
>>     With just a light fire it turned like new. So the 'cure' was due 
>> either greater radiant heat from the stove upper surface or black 
>> magic. I prefer greater radiant heat.
>>
>>     The Angel Chimes are not black; image below.
>>
>> https://mygrowingtraditions.com/blogs/news/15734508-the-original-swedish-angel-chimes
>>
>> YT, DW
>>
>>
>> On 5/28/2020 12:36 PM, Patrick Kelly wrote:
>>> When it comes to blackbody radiation (and most things are pretty 
>>> close to that if they are solid, liquid, or a dense gas) the amount 
>>> of radiation that they *emit* at various wavelengths depends only on 
>>> their temperature.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation
>>>
>>> When it comes to *absorbing* radiation, the colour does matter. In 
>>> visible light, an object that looks red, does so because it absorbs 
>>> all other wavelength in the visible part of the spectrum and 
>>> reflects red light. An object that is black (in the visible part of 
>>> the spectrum) will act a lot more like a blackbody (absorbing all 
>>> wavelegths of visible light) while a white object will reflect all 
>>> wavelengths. The finish (matte or glossy) would also have some 
>>> effect. I expect that a black fan-like device on stove will be more 
>>> strongly powered because the black allows it to absorb more infrared 
>>> radiation from the surrounding stove than a gray one, thus getting 
>>> hotter.
>>>
>>> Pat
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 27, 2020, at 11:11 PM, N Robinson wrote:
>>>
>>>> CAUTION: The Sender of this email is not from within Dalhousie.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Re the blacking, when living in Montreal in an old house with hot 
>>>> water furnace and radiators , I wondered at a certain point if the 
>>>> radiators would radiate more heat if they were painted black.  I 
>>>> couldn't find anything on the net, probably because I did not know 
>>>> what question to ask.  It was just a hunch, because black absorbs 
>>>> more heat; but this heat would be coming from the inside, so to 
>>>> speak...?
>>>>
>>>> Still don't know but perhaps David's discovery holds the answer.
>>>>
>>>> I did not paint them black and did not use my chimes to test anything.
>>>>
>>>> Nancy
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 10:44 PM David Webster <dwebster@glinx.com 
>>>> <mailto:dwebster@glinx.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Hi again Henk & All,
>>>>
>>>>         Original box found; says "Swedish Angel Chimes" on main
>>>>     panel: "Angel Chimes A Product of Swedish Handicraft" on end tab.
>>>>     YT, DW, Kentville
>>>>
>>>>     -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>     Subject: 	Re: [NatureNS] Stove Blacking and heat transmission
>>>>     Date: 	Wed, 27 May 2020 08:44:56 -0300
>>>>     From: 	David Webster <dwebster@glinx.com>
>>>>     <mailto:dwebster@glinx.com>
>>>>     To: 	naturens@chebucto.ns.ca <mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Hi Henk & All,    It is one of these effects which must be seen
>>>>     to be believed; the difference between 'black and white' (via
>>>>     dull grey). That Swedish connection may be in error. Will be on
>>>>     the lookout for the original package likely about 50 years old.
>>>>
>>>>     Dave W.
>>>>
>>>>     On 5/26/2020 9:13 PM, Henk Kwindt wrote:
>>>>>     Hi Dave and All,
>>>>>
>>>>>     I don’t really have anything to add to your explanation but I
>>>>>     thought it interesting that you have one of those “angel
>>>>>     carousels”!
>>>>>     We have had ours for at least 40+ years, they were quite
>>>>>     popular in The Netherlands in the 60s, didn’t know they came
>>>>>     from Sweden.
>>>>>     Ours is packed with other Christmas decorations so it is being
>>>>>     placed on the stove every year in Dec.
>>>>>     We have not used the candles to “power” it for a long time.
>>>>>     Since we have a more modern high efficiency stove the black
>>>>>     top is not directly accessible so I won’t be able to repeat
>>>>>     your experiment.
>>>>>     Henk Kwindt, Cow Bay, NS.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>     On May 26, 2020, at 7:47 PM, David Webster
>>>>>>     <dwebster@glinx.com> <mailto:dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Hi Steve & All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     No my mill is powered entirely by upward flow of warm air; a
>>>>>>     thin circular sheet of brass clipped to form eight vanes
>>>>>>     which slope downward to the left. This fan consequently turns
>>>>>>     near side to the left. (Clockwise viewed from above).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     The original unit, made in Sweden, was powered by candles and
>>>>>>     intended as a Christmas table decoration.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     The fan is supported by a brass plate with three arms on each
>>>>>>     of which an angel hangs and a brass rod hanging from each
>>>>>>     angel rings a chime as it turns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     I just stuck the working parts in a support made from a
>>>>>>     length of burned out oven element, bent to be stable with the
>>>>>>     filling removed from the vertical end by tapping.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Just to confuse matters; note that what we call clockwise
>>>>>>     (down on the right side) is counterclockwise from the clock's
>>>>>>     viewpoint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     YT, Dave W.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     On 5/26/2020 5:53 PM, Stephen Shaw wrote:
>>>>>>>     Hi Dave,
>>>>>>>     I’m not familiar with your named device or its principle of
>>>>>>>     operation, but we too have a small windmill that simply
>>>>>>>     rests on top of our (also black) wood stove and spins faster
>>>>>>>     as the stove heats up. It works as a Peltier device, with
>>>>>>>     parallel hot and cold junctions built into a short aluminium
>>>>>>>     tower, the top of which is an air-cooled heat sink. I think
>>>>>>>     it cost ~$130 some years ago. The ‘hot' side of the Peltier
>>>>>>>     junction faces down to the hot stove top upon which the
>>>>>>>     frame rests, while the ‘cold' side is uppermost, and its
>>>>>>>     heat sink is cooled partly by the little rotating fan and
>>>>>>>     partly by radiation. With enough heating differential, the
>>>>>>>     Peltier effect generates a small current which is enough to
>>>>>>>     turn a small DC motor that carries the fan.
>>>>>>>     Is this like your device? If so, you may have simply have
>>>>>>>     cleaned and in effect flattened the stove top a bit so the
>>>>>>>     base of the device makes better thermal contact with the Al
>>>>>>>     base of the windmill, though the black-body improvement
>>>>>>>     should help a bit. A better solution in my case and maybe
>>>>>>>     yours would be to apply a thin layer of heat-sink compound
>>>>>>>     to the base of the tower. This is a messy paste based on
>>>>>>>     zinc oxide, used standard in electronics to attach a power
>>>>>>>     transistor to an aluminium or copper heat sink, while at the
>>>>>>>     same time providing electrical insulation. It would
>>>>>>>     certainly enhance heat conduction to our windmill, but the
>>>>>>>     compound is white, sticky and difficult to remove once
>>>>>>>     applied: I would become locally unpopular if I so disfigured
>>>>>>>     our black stove top, so I haven’t yet risked the experiment.
>>>>>>>     Steve
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     On May 25, 2020, at 7:55 PM, David Webster
>>>>>>>     <dwebster@glinx.com> <mailto:dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>     Dear All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     I heat the house mostly with wood burned in a fireplace
>>>>>>>>     insert and,
>>>>>>>>     apart from some air circulation in under the fire box, up
>>>>>>>>     behind it and
>>>>>>>>     out over the top, most heating is radiant off of the top.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     For decades I have used a Swedish Christmas heat mill, sold for
>>>>>>>>     candles, which I adapted for stove top use, as a measure of
>>>>>>>>     heat release
>>>>>>>>     rate. In recent decades it turned less frequently and for
>>>>>>>>     several years
>>>>>>>>     not turned at all even with a brisk fire so I suspected
>>>>>>>>     wear and
>>>>>>>>     increased friction at pivot points.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     The stove top had become dull grey in color so to improve
>>>>>>>>     appearance I located a source of blacking last fall but it
>>>>>>>>     could be
>>>>>>>>     applied only to a cold stove so was applied to the top, on
>>>>>>>>     first recent
>>>>>>>>     warm morning this spring, and the increase in heat
>>>>>>>>     radiation from the
>>>>>>>>     top was dramatic. With just a token fire that Swedish heat
>>>>>>>>     mill was
>>>>>>>>     spinning full tilt !
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     This I assume was a practical demonstration of increased
>>>>>>>>     radiation
>>>>>>>>     from a black surface (Black Body Radiation ?). And all
>>>>>>>>     along I had
>>>>>>>>     imagined that stove blacking was just for appearance.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Yt, DW, Kentville
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Nancy Robinson
>>>> 514-605-7186
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick Kelly
>>> 159 Town Road
>>> Falmouth NSB0P 1L0
>>> Canada
>>>
>>> (902) 472-2322
>>>
>
>
> Patrick Kelly
>
> 159 Town Road
>
> Falmouth NSB0P 1L0
>
> Canada
>
>
> (902) 472-2322
>
>

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    <p>Hi Patrick &amp; All,</p>
    <p>    The weather forecast indicated a need for fire this afternoon
      so I prepared a test of the 'Blacking Effect' by having the right
      hand half of the stove top freshly blackened and the left side
      with the previous blacking untouched and now slightly dull. With a
      brisk fire today, rotation was nil to intermittent on both sides
      of the stove. <br>
    </p>
    <p>    So I now think that the previous brisk rotation on a freshly
      blackened stove was a fluke. My improvised stand has some slack
      between the base socket and the main shaft of the angel chimes,
      shimmed long ago with thin wedges of folded Al foil, and it can
      naturally function effectively only if the main shaft is vertical.
      I suspect that, by chance, those shims were shifted during
      cleaning in a way that made the shaft essentially vertical for
      that brief period. Rotation today was often started by tipping the
      unit with pliers.<br>
    </p>
    <p>    Sometime this summer I will attempt to shim that slack joint
      securely so the main shaft is precisely vertical.    </p>
    <p>    YT, DW, Kentville<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/28/2020 3:50 PM, Patrick Kelly
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:48E56AE2-5A3B-4E9C-97C0-0853DA3DFEA9@dal.ca">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      We had a set of those growing up as well, but they came in a
      different box. Mechanically, they were pretty simple, a cone
      resting on a point so there would be little friction. My brother
      and I used to flick the piece that the angels hung from to see how
      fast we could get it going before the angels flew off so it was
      pretty robust!
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>One thing that I could see that might prevent it from turning
        is if it started with one of the hanging pieces right against a
        chime. We ran into the problem a few times when using candles.
        It seemed as though it needed a bit of initial freedom to move
        before it hit a chime... after that it was fine as long as the
        candles stayed lit. Given the wariness people have of leaving
        candles unattended they do not seem as popular now as they once
        were as many of my uncles and aunts had them too!</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Pat</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div> <br>
        <div>
          <div>On May 28, 2020, at 3:07 PM, David Webster wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <blockquote type="cite">
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                                    <td align="left">
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style="font-weight:bold;font-size:12px;">CAUTION:</span> The Sender of
                                        this email is not from within
                                        Dalhousie.</div>
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              <div>
                <p>Hi Pat,</p>
                <p>    I think you were replying mostly to Nancy but you
                  reply conflicts directly with my recent experience.
                  That stove blacking made a huge difference.
                  <br>
                </p>
                <p>    Whether the Angel Chimes stopped turning reliably
                  12 years ago, earlier or later I can not be sure; not
                  a high priority. But in the previous 4 years, perhaps
                  more, it just had not turned. I left it there with
                  intent to some day take it apart to see if the unknown
                  fault was reversible. <br>
                </p>
                <p>    As it turned out wear of the unit, or other
                  damage, was not the problem. And the blacking was
                  applied so the stove would not look so neglected.<br>
                </p>
                <p>    With just a light fire it turned like new. So the
                  'cure' was due either greater radiant heat from the
                  stove upper surface or black magic. I prefer greater
                  radiant heat.</p>
                <p>    The Angel Chimes are not black; image below. <br>
                </p>
                <p><a
href="https://mygrowingtraditions.com/blogs/news/15734508-the-original-swedish-angel-chimes"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">https://mygrowingtraditions.com/blogs/news/15734508-the-original-swedish-angel-chimes</a></p>
                <p>YT, DW<br>
                </p>
                <p><br>
                </p>
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/28/2020 12:36 PM,
                  Patrick Kelly wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite"
                  cite="mid:EDE3990F-6359-409A-B7DD-4E4AFFE9C321@dal.ca">When
                  it comes to blackbody radiation (and most things are
                  pretty close to that if they are solid, liquid, or a
                  dense gas) the amount of radiation that they
                  <b>emit</b> at various wavelengths depends only on
                  their temperature.
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><a
                      href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation</a></div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>When it comes to <b>absorbing</b> radiation, the
                    colour does matter. In visible light, an object that
                    looks red, does so because it absorbs all other
                    wavelength in the visible part of the spectrum and
                    reflects red light. An object that is black (in the
                    visible part of the spectrum) will act a lot more
                    like a blackbody (absorbing all wavelegths of
                    visible light) while a white object will reflect all
                    wavelengths. The finish (matte or glossy) would also
                    have some effect. I expect that a black fan-like
                    device on stove will be more strongly powered
                    because the black allows it to absorb more infrared
                    radiation from the surrounding stove than a gray
                    one, thus getting hotter. </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Pat</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div><br>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>On May 27, 2020, at 11:11 PM, N Robinson
                          wrote:</div>
                        <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div><!-- START CAUTION Box Code -->
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style="font-weight:bold;font-size:12px;">CAUTION:</span> The Sender of
                                                      this email is not
                                                      from within
                                                      Dalhousie.</div>
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                            <div>
                              <div dir="ltr">
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Re the blacking, when living in
                                    Montreal in an old house with hot
                                    water furnace and radiators , I
                                    wondered at a certain point if the
                                    radiators would radiate more heat if
                                    they were painted black.  I couldn't
                                    find anything on the net, probably
                                    because I did not know what question
                                    to ask.  It was just a hunch,
                                    because black absorbs more heat; but
                                    this heat would be coming from the
                                    inside, so to speak...? 
                                    <br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Still don't know but perhaps
                                    David's discovery holds the answer.</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>I did not paint them black and
                                    did not use my chimes to test
                                    anything.  <br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Nancy<br>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">
                                  <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
                                    Wed, May 27, 2020 at 10:44 PM David
                                    Webster &lt;<a
                                      href="mailto:dwebster@glinx.com"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">dwebster@glinx.com</a>&gt;
                                    wrote:<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                                    0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                                    rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                    <div>
                                      <p>Hi again Henk &amp; All,<br>
                                      </p>
                                      <div>    Original box found; says
                                        "Swedish Angel Chimes" on main
                                        panel: "Angel Chimes A Product
                                        of Swedish Handicraft" on end
                                        tab.
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>YT, DW, Kentville<br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div><br>
                                        -------- Forwarded Message
                                        --------
                                        <table cellspacing="0"
                                          cellpadding="0" border="0">
                                          <tbody>
                                            <tr>
                                              <th valign="BASELINE"
                                                nowrap="nowrap"
                                                align="RIGHT">Subject: </th>
                                              <td>Re: [NatureNS] Stove
                                                Blacking and heat
                                                transmission</td>
                                            </tr>
                                            <tr>
                                              <th valign="BASELINE"
                                                nowrap="nowrap"
                                                align="RIGHT">Date: </th>
                                              <td>Wed, 27 May 2020
                                                08:44:56 -0300</td>
                                            </tr>
                                            <tr>
                                              <th valign="BASELINE"
                                                nowrap="nowrap"
                                                align="RIGHT">From: </th>
                                              <td>David Webster <a
                                                  href="mailto:dwebster@glinx.com"
                                                  target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true">
&lt;dwebster@glinx.com&gt;</a></td>
                                            </tr>
                                            <tr>
                                              <th valign="BASELINE"
                                                nowrap="nowrap"
                                                align="RIGHT">To: </th>
                                              <td><a
                                                  href="mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"
                                                  target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a></td>
                                            </tr>
                                          </tbody>
                                        </table>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                        Hi Henk &amp; All,    It is one
                                        of these effects which must be
                                        seen to be believed; the
                                        difference between 'black and
                                        white' (via dull grey). That
                                        Swedish connection may be in
                                        error. Will be on the lookout
                                        for the original package likely
                                        about 50 years old.<br>
                                        <br>
                                        Dave W.<br>
                                        <br>
                                        On 5/26/2020 9:13 PM, Henk
                                        Kwindt wrote:<br>
                                        <blockquote type="cite">Hi Dave
                                          and All,<br>
                                          <br>
                                          I don’t really have anything
                                          to add to your explanation but
                                          I thought it interesting that
                                          you have one of those “angel
                                          carousels”!<br>
                                          We have had ours for at least
                                          40+ years, they were quite
                                          popular in The Netherlands in
                                          the 60s, didn’t know they came
                                          from Sweden.<br>
                                          Ours is packed with other
                                          Christmas decorations so it is
                                          being placed on the stove
                                          every year in Dec.<br>
                                          We have not used the candles
                                          to “power” it for a long time.<br>
                                          Since we have a more modern
                                          high efficiency stove the
                                          black top is not directly
                                          accessible so I won’t be able
                                          to repeat your experiment.<br>
                                          Henk Kwindt, Cow Bay, NS.<br>
                                          <br>
                                          <br>
                                          <br>
                                          <blockquote type="cite">On May
                                            26, 2020, at 7:47 PM, David
                                            Webster <a
                                              href="mailto:dwebster@glinx.com"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">
                                              &lt;dwebster@glinx.com&gt;</a>
                                            wrote:<br>
                                            <br>
                                            Hi Steve &amp; All,<br>
                                            <br>
                                            No my mill is powered
                                            entirely by upward flow of
                                            warm air; a thin circular
                                            sheet of brass clipped to
                                            form eight vanes which slope
                                            downward to the left. This
                                            fan consequently turns near
                                            side to the left. (Clockwise
                                            viewed from above).<br>
                                            <br>
                                            The original unit, made in
                                            Sweden, was powered by
                                            candles and intended as a
                                            Christmas table decoration.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            The fan is supported by a
                                            brass plate with three arms
                                            on each of which an angel
                                            hangs and a brass rod
                                            hanging from each angel
                                            rings a chime as it turns.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            I just stuck the working
                                            parts in a support made from
                                            a length of burned out oven
                                            element, bent to be stable
                                            with the filling removed
                                            from the vertical end by
                                            tapping.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            Just to confuse matters;
                                            note that what we call
                                            clockwise (down on the right
                                            side) is counterclockwise
                                            from the clock's viewpoint.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            YT, Dave W.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            <br>
                                            On 5/26/2020 5:53 PM,
                                            Stephen Shaw wrote:<br>
                                            <blockquote type="cite">Hi
                                              Dave,<br>
                                              I’m not familiar with your
                                              named device or its
                                              principle of operation,
                                              but we too have a small
                                              windmill that simply rests
                                              on top of our (also black)
                                              wood stove and spins
                                              faster as the stove heats
                                              up. It works as a Peltier
                                              device, with parallel hot
                                              and cold junctions built
                                              into a short aluminium
                                              tower, the top of which is
                                              an air-cooled heat sink. I
                                              think it cost ~$130 some
                                              years ago. The ‘hot' side
                                              of the Peltier junction
                                              faces down to the hot
                                              stove top upon which the
                                              frame rests, while the
                                              ‘cold' side is uppermost,
                                              and its heat sink is
                                              cooled partly by the
                                              little rotating fan and
                                              partly by radiation. With
                                              enough heating
                                              differential, the Peltier
                                              effect generates a small
                                              current which is enough to
                                              turn a small DC motor that
                                              carries the fan.<br>
                                              Is this like your device?
                                              If so, you may have simply
                                              have cleaned and in effect
                                              flattened the stove top a
                                              bit so the base of the
                                              device makes better
                                              thermal contact with the
                                              Al base of the windmill,
                                              though the black-body
                                              improvement should help a
                                              bit. A better solution in
                                              my case and maybe yours
                                              would be to apply a thin
                                              layer of heat-sink
                                              compound to the base of
                                              the tower. This is a messy
                                              paste based on zinc oxide,
                                              used standard in
                                              electronics to attach a
                                              power transistor to an
                                              aluminium or copper heat
                                              sink, while at the same
                                              time providing electrical
                                              insulation. It would
                                              certainly enhance heat
                                              conduction to our
                                              windmill, but the compound
                                              is white, sticky and
                                              difficult to remove once
                                              applied: I would become
                                              locally unpopular if I so
                                              disfigured our black stove
                                              top, so I haven’t yet
                                              risked the experiment.<br>
                                              Steve<br>
                                              <br>
                                              On May 25, 2020, at 7:55
                                              PM, David Webster <a
                                                href="mailto:dwebster@glinx.com"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true">
&lt;dwebster@glinx.com&gt;</a> wrote:<br>
                                              <blockquote type="cite">Dear
                                                All,<br>
                                                <br>
                                                I heat the house mostly
                                                with wood burned in a
                                                fireplace insert and,<br>
                                                apart from some air
                                                circulation in under the
                                                fire box, up behind it
                                                and<br>
                                                out over the top, most
                                                heating is radiant off
                                                of the top.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                For decades I have used
                                                a Swedish Christmas heat
                                                mill, sold for<br>
                                                candles, which I adapted
                                                for stove top use, as a
                                                measure of heat release<br>
                                                rate. In recent decades
                                                it turned less
                                                frequently and for
                                                several years<br>
                                                not turned at all even
                                                with a brisk fire so I
                                                suspected wear and<br>
                                                increased friction at
                                                pivot points.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                The stove top had become
                                                dull grey in color so to
                                                improve<br>
                                                appearance I located a
                                                source of blacking last
                                                fall but it could be<br>
                                                applied only to a cold
                                                stove so was applied to
                                                the top, on first recent<br>
                                                warm morning this
                                                spring, and the increase
                                                in heat radiation from
                                                the<br>
                                                top was dramatic. With
                                                just a token fire that
                                                Swedish heat mill was<br>
                                                spinning full tilt !<br>
                                                <br>
                                                This I assume was a
                                                practical demonstration
                                                of increased radiation<br>
                                                from a black surface
                                                (Black Body Radiation
                                                ?). And all along I had<br>
                                                imagined that stove
                                                blacking was just for
                                                appearance.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Yt, DW, Kentville<br>
                                                <br>
                                                <br>
                                              </blockquote>
                                            </blockquote>
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