[NatureNS] Re: expanding universe

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Thread-Topic: expanding universe
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re: expanding universe:

It is predicted by relativity theory. If any part of the universe begins to=
 expand it will cause all of it to expand. Ditto for collapsing. At the tim=
e there was no observational evidences for it, so Einstein put in a "fudge =
factor" to keep the universe from collapsing, which he thought was more lik=
ely. Hubble then found that the universe was expanding and Einstein changed=
 his fudge factor to zero, calling it the biggest mistake he had ever made.

Emission and absorption of light does not work as you describe it. Each ato=
m and molecule can absorb and emit specific wavelengths of electromagnetic =
radiation (visible light being a very narrow band of wavelengths). In the l=
ab, with no relative motion between the source and the observer, these alwa=
ys occur at the same wavelength. When an object moves towards, or away from=
 the observer, the wavelength become shorter or longer, respectively, becau=
se light travels as a wave. The same thing happens to sound waves, which is=
 why the sound of a vehicle with a siren appears to have a different sound =
coming towards you than going away from you.

What Hubble found was that outside of the Local Group of galaxies to which =
the Milky Way belong, the farther away the galaxies were, the more ALL of t=
he wavelengths  were longer (and redder). See the astronomy section of: htt=
ps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_effect

The Doppler shift also allows us to work out the speed at which galaxies ar=
e moving away from us, and what Hubble found (now called Hubble's Law) is t=
hat the speed is proportional to the distance from us. The only way this ca=
n happen is in an expanding universe. If you put dots on a balloon and infl=
ate it, you will see that all the dots move away from each other, and if yo=
u measure the distances between them, you will find that the farther away t=
he dots are, the faster they move apart.

The Big Bang Theory also predicts such things as the about of each of the c=
hemical elements, as well as other testable predictions, including the exis=
tence and exact shape of the energy distribution of the cosmic microwave ba=
ckground which, at that time, was not observable. It was discovered by acci=
dent, some years later, by two researchers at Bell Labs who could not figur=
e out why their new large microwave receiver, which they had built to see i=
f microwaves could be used to transmit telephone data, kept picking up a ba=
ckground hiss from all directions. The later won the Nobel Prize in Physics=
 for their discovery. In fact, the Big Bang Theory explains the overall str=
ugtero of the observable universe from the present, all the way back to Pla=
nck Time (10E-43 seconds; that is a decimal point, 43 zeros and then a 1).

Pat



On May 2, 2020, at 3:19 PM, David Webster wrote:

CAUTION: The Sender of this email is not from within Dalhousie.

Hi John and All,

    True, the so called 'soft sciences' are deformable but even physics has=
 pitfalls. There were many 'final' answers to explain how the Crooks radiom=
eter works and that is a very simple mechanism. You can take it apart chang=
e vanes in various ways; etc.

    Thus, in the face of "undeniable proof", I refuse  to accept an expandi=
ng universe. Space has many "clouds" of atoms, molecules, ions and particle=
s. So the probability of a photon being absorbed by something and then emit=
ted at a longer wavelength can be expected to increase as distance between =
the source and observer increases.

    Any Physicist who suggested that such heresy should be investigated wou=
ld be Hubbleized out of the inner sanctum and ,at the very least, have his =
funds cut off. But all things come in their time.

YT, Dave W. Kentville

On 5/2/2020 2:19 PM, John and Nhung wrote:
Some of the =93social scientists=94 CBC seems inclined to interview are cer=
tainly given to amazing leaps of logic, such that =93scientist=94 shouldn=
=92t be part of their titles.  The hypotheses that said =93some=94 advance =
are plausible and the questions they raise are important, but their tendenc=
ies to assert their hypotheses as certitude rub me the wrong way.

But I digress =85 :)

From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca<mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca> [=
mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] On Behalf Of David Webster
Sent: May 2, 2020 1:43 PM
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca<mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Covid-19 data - Tracking covid-19 excess deaths acr=
oss countries | Graphic detail | The Economist


Thanks Patrick,

I especially enjoyed "This sales technique, reminiscent of pre-Reformation =
Catholicism, is not surprising in a publication named after the social scie=
nce most given to wild guesses and imaginary facts presented in the guise o=
f inevitability and exactitude. "

    It reminded me of the 60's saying "If all economists were laid end to e=
nd they would all point in different directions."  Which in turn led to "If=
 all the girls from Redacted College were laid end to end I wouldn't be sur=
prised".

Dave W. Kentville

On 5/2/2020 12:29 PM, Patrick Kelly wrote:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist

Look under =93editorial anonymity=94 and you will see why they have always =
taken the approach that they do.

Pat
Sent from my iPad

On May 2, 2020, at 12:23 PM, David Webster <dwebster@glinx.com<mailto:dwebs=
ter@glinx.com>> wrote:
CAUTION: The Sender of this email is not from within Dalhousie.

Hi Mary &All,

   Thanks for posting this.

   Over time I have received several complementary issues of The
Economist but never subscribed because all of the articles were
anonymous. Has this changed ?

Dave, Kentville

On 5/2/2020 10:47 AM, Mary Macaulay wrote:

This article may be approaching the scientific data people are looking for.=
 As always with the Economist, nicely illustrated graphically:
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-exces=
s-deaths-across-countries


With kindest regards

Mary (Macaulay), P.Eng.
CEO Insect Recovery Project
Social Enterprise - Tatamagouche Remember Adventures & Caper Cafe
Bed & Breakfast, Pedal Buggy, bike, kayak, coaster & snowshoe rentals, grea=
t bird friendly coffee, organic baking, breakfast & pasta, soups, stews, ve=
gan curries & chili, pollinator meadow, games & more!!
(Cafe/Buggies Open Wed to Sunday: 8:00 am - 3 pm; Tatamagouche B&B phone me=
 directly , Angevine Lake Chalet - book via Airbnb)
RememberAdventures.ca<http://RememberAdventures.ca/> & InsectRecovery.org<h=
ttp://InsectRecovery.org/>
1-902-293-1533
Twitter @RememberTata & @InsectRecovery


Patrick Kelly

159 Town Road

Falmouth NS  B0P 1L0

Canada


(902) 472-2322


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e-break: after-white-space; ">
re: expanding universe:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is predicted by relativity theory. If any part of the universe begi=
ns to expand it will cause all of it to expand. Ditto for collapsing. At th=
e time there was no observational evidences for it, so Einstein put in a &q=
uot;fudge factor&quot; to keep the universe
 from collapsing, which he thought was more likely. Hubble then found that =
the universe was expanding and Einstein changed his fudge factor to zero, c=
alling it the biggest mistake he had ever made.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Emission and absorption of light does not work as you describe it. Eac=
h atom and molecule can absorb and emit specific wavelengths of electromagn=
etic radiation (visible light being a very narrow band of wavelengths). In =
the lab, with no relative motion
 between the source and the observer, these always occur at the same wavele=
ngth. When an object moves towards, or away from the observer, the waveleng=
th become shorter or longer, respectively, because light travels as a wave.=
 The same thing happens to sound
 waves, which is why the sound of a vehicle with a siren appears to have a =
different sound coming towards you than going away from you.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What Hubble found was that outside of the Local Group of galaxies to w=
hich the Milky Way belong, the farther away the galaxies were, the more ALL=
 of the wavelengths &nbsp;were longer (and redder). See the astronomy secti=
on of:
<a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_effect">https://en.wikiped=
ia.org/wiki/Doppler_effect</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The Doppler shift also allows us to work out the speed at which galaxi=
es are moving away from us, and what Hubble found (now called Hubble's Law)=
 is that the speed is proportional to the distance from us. The only way th=
is can happen is in an expanding
 universe. If you put dots on a balloon and inflate it, you will see that a=
ll the dots move away from each other, and if you measure the distances bet=
ween them, you will find that the farther away the dots are, the faster the=
y move apart.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The Big Bang Theory also predicts such things as the about of each of =
the chemical elements, as well as other testable predictions, including the=
 existence and exact shape of the energy distribution of the cosmic microwa=
ve background which, at that time,
 was not observable. It was discovered by accident, some years later, by tw=
o researchers at Bell Labs who could not figure out why their new large mic=
rowave receiver, which they had built to see if microwaves could be used to=
 transmit telephone data, kept picking
 up a background hiss from all directions. The later won the Nobel Prize in=
 Physics for their discovery. In fact, the Big Bang Theory explains the ove=
rall strugtero of the observable universe from the present, all the way bac=
k to Planck Time (10E-43 seconds;
 that is a decimal point, 43 zeros and then a 1).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Pat</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On May 2, 2020, at 3:19 PM, David Webster wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
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<tr>
<td align=3D"left">
<div style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:16px;=
text-align:left;color:#ffffff;">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold;font-size:12px;">CAUTION:</span> The Sender=
 of this email is not from within Dalhousie.</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<!-- END CAUTION Box Code -->
<div>
<p>Hi John and All,</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; True, the so called 'soft sciences' are deformable bu=
t even physics has pitfalls. There were many 'final' answers to explain how=
 the Crooks radiometer works and that is a very simple mechanism. You can t=
ake it apart change vanes in various ways; etc.<br>
</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thus, in the face of &quot;undeniable proof&quot;, I =
refuse&nbsp; to accept an expanding universe. Space has many &quot;clouds&q=
uot; of atoms, molecules, ions and particles. So the probability of a photo=
n being absorbed by something and then emitted at a longer wavelength can
 be expected to increase as distance between the source and observer increa=
ses. <br>
</p>
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Any Physicist who suggested that such heresy should b=
e investigated would be Hubbleized out of the inner sanctum and ,at the ver=
y least, have his funds cut off. But all things come in their time.</p>
<p>YT, Dave W. Kentville<br>
</p>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 5/2/2020 2:19 PM, John and Nhung wrote:<b=
r>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:000601d620a5$ca2b5b20$5e821160$@eastl=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Some</span></u><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1F497D"> of the =93social scientists=94 CBC seems inclined to i=
nterview
 are certainly given to amazing leaps of logic, such that =93scientist=94 s=
houldn=92t be part of their titles.&nbsp; The hypotheses that said =93some=
=94 advance are plausible and the questions they raise are important, but t=
heir tendencies to assert their hypotheses as certitude
 rub me the wrong way.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">But I digress =85
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"=
>J</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;" lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;" lang=3D"EN-US">
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebuct=
o.ns.ca">naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca</a> [<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freete=
xt" href=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca">mailto:naturens-owner@che=
bucto.ns.ca</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Webster<br>
<b>Sent:</b> May 2, 2020 1:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:naturens@ch=
ebucto.ns.ca">
naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NatureNS] Covid-19 data - Tracking covid-19 excess dea=
ths across countries | Graphic detail | The Economist<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p>Thanks Patrick,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I especially enjoyed &quot;<span style=3D"color:#202122;background:white=
">This sales technique, reminiscent of pre-Reformation Catholicism, is not =
surprising in a publication named after the social science most given to wi=
ld guesses and imaginary facts presented
 in the guise of inevitability and exactitude. &quot;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe
            UI&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#202122">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; It reminded me of the 60's saying &quot;If all economists were laid end =
to end they would all point in different directions.&quot;&nbsp; Which in t=
urn led to &quot;If all the girls from Redacted
 College were laid end to end I wouldn't be surprised&quot;.</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe
            UI&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#202122">Dave W. Kentvill=
e<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 5/2/2020 12:29 PM, Patrick Kelly wrote:<o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Econo=
mist" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economis=
t</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Look under =93editorial anonymity=94 and you will se=
e why they have always taken the approach that they do.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Pat<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On May 2, 2020, at 12:23 PM, David Webster &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dwebster@g=
linx.com" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">dwebster@glinx.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">CAUTION: The Sender of this email is not from within=
 Dalhousie.<br>
<br>
Hi Mary &amp;All,<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks for posting this.<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Over time I have received several complementary issues of=
 The<br>
Economist but never subscribed because all of the articles were<br>
anonymous. Has this changed ?<br>
<br>
Dave, Kentville<br>
<br>
On 5/2/2020 10:47 AM, Mary Macaulay wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This article may be approaching the scientific data =
people are looking for. As always with the Economist, nicely illustrated gr=
aphically:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/=
2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries" moz-do-not-sen=
d=3D"true">https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-cov=
id-19-excess-deaths-across-countries</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">With kindest regards<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mary (Macaulay), P.Eng.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">CEO Insect Recovery Project<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Social Enterprise - Tatamagouche Remember Adventures=
 &amp; Caper Cafe<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Bed &amp; Breakfast, Pedal Buggy, bike, kayak, coast=
er &amp; snowshoe rentals, great bird friendly coffee, organic baking, brea=
kfast &amp; pasta, soups, stews, vegan curries &amp; chili, pollinator mead=
ow, games &amp; more!!<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">(Cafe/Buggies Open Wed to Sunday: 8:00 am - 3 pm; Ta=
tamagouche B&amp;B phone me directly , Angevine Lake Chalet - book via Airb=
nb)<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://RememberAdventures.ca/" moz-do-not=
-send=3D"true">RememberAdventures.ca</a> &amp;
<a href=3D"http://InsectRecovery.org/" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">InsectRecov=
ery.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1-902-293-1533<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Twitter @RememberTata &amp; @InsectRecovery<o:p></o:=
p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; c=
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one; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-hori=
zontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-dec=
orations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stro=
ke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=
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rmal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent:=
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px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing=
: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">
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ce: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing=
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fect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;=
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<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line=
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<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color:=
 rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
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ight: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-spa=
ce: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing=
: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-ef=
fect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;=
 ">
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left: 0px; ">
<font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: normal normal normal 12px/=
normal Courier; "><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
Patrick Kelly</font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; ">
<font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: normal normal normal 12px/=
normal Courier; ">159 Town Road</font></p>
<p style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-=
left: 0px; ">
<font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: normal normal normal 12px/=
normal Courier; ">Falmouth NS<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span>B0P 1L0</font></p>
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left: 0px; ">
<font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: normal normal normal 12px/=
normal Courier; ">Canada</font></p>
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left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Courier; min-height: 14px=
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<br>
</p>
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left: 0px; ">
<font face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: normal normal normal 12px/=
normal Courier; ">(902) 472-2322</font></p>
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