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Hi All,
Could anybody explain to me how it became common practise (and =
apparently legal) for farmers to dispose of dead livestock in a manner =
as is being done with the chickens in the Valley?
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that there are strict regulations =
in NS re. the disposal of dead animals like f.e. a dead calf.
Why do these rules not apply to chickens?
Thanks, Henk Kwindt, Cow Bay, NS.
> On Apr 5, 2020, at 11:38 AM, David Webster <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Donna & All,
>=20
> It had to happen eventually. Within a hypothetical margin of =
communication blurr Donna, we are in total agreement. And you expressed =
my misgivings very well.
>=20
> I do not know the modern poultry industry but I suspect those hens =
die of heart failure or grief as opposed to disease. Never able to walk =
, see sunlight or experience any exercise other than eating and laying =
eggs is not a balanced life. Far cry from the traditional dooryard hens =
who had the run of the 'lawn', sometimes a wake of chicks, and by the =
puk, puk... sounds seemed to be happy and they did a great job of mowing =
the lawn and, under any apple tree, of controlling apple maggot.
>=20
> YT, DW, Kentville
>=20
> On 4/5/2020 10:16 AM, Donna Crossland wrote:
>> I can't resist supporting Burkard's statement regarding the =
intended/unintended consequences of humans on wild populations.
>>=20
>> Food-supplemented eagle populations created from industrial poultry =
operations in Kings County are having a far-reaching negative effect on =
other species in other counties, and possibly other provinces. =
Hopefully we are starting to recognize this and will work together to =
curb the trend, starting by no longer feeding eagles. (It's a mystery =
how the tossing out of poultry, dead of questionable causes, is not =
considered a biofood security issue...(?))
>>=20
>> Many who spend time in the wilder places of NS, and those who live =
near lakes, know of the detrimental effects of increasing eagle numbers, =
but we have only anecdotal evidence to support concerns. Hopefully we =
won't actually need a formal study to realize that feeding and =
augmenting eagle populations is a bad idea, now that they have recovered =
from DDT. Holding special eagle events with ~ 40 eagles rather than 400 =
eagles, should still provide an impressive show, while being mindful of =
the needs and struggles of other bird species such as loons and osprey. =
'Balance' should be the goal. But I am afraid that no one seems to be =
in charge of setting this goal, or looking at critical thresholds. One =
department says the issue of feeding eagles falls under the auspices of =
the other. Such high numbers of eagles in a small area should ring =
alarm bells by anyone's standards. This as an unnaturally high =
population that can and does have unintended consequences. =20
>>=20
>> A few years ago, I had opportunity to chat with Dr Malcolm Hunter, =
well known wildlife biologist, about our unnaturally high eagle =
populations. He fully agreed that inflated eagle numbers are =
problematic, and stated that there are similar consequences from =
increasing eagle populations in the US, making particular reference to =
eagle impacts on nesting heron colonies. A quick internet search =
reveals lots of concerns stated over declines of heron colonies. As =
well, some folks on PEI have noted rising eagle numbers (likely Kings Co =
eagles?) and predation on nesting osprey. =20
>>=20
>> Numerous nature-loving people in Queens-Annapolis Counties have =
recounted tormented stories of watching nesting eagles relentlessly =
harass and kill loon chicks. A loon chick, flightless until autumn, =
cannot change lakes and spends the whole season trying to avoid being =
eaten by eagles. The large numbers of eagles in the Annapolis Valley =
disperse to nest on numerous Nova Scotia lakes where food sources are =
much more limited than 'down on the chicken farm'. The common loon has =
a load of stressors placed on it already, with acidic lakes, altered =
fish populations, high methyl mercury levels in many lakes, and remote =
lakes on which they have nested on for centuries now lined with =
cottages- all add up to placing our loon populations in jeopardy. =20
>>=20
>> Over the past week or so, I have been searching for a suitable =
location to place an artificial, floating loon nest platform on the =
Annapolis River. Prior to the shut down of the turbines the high =
fluctuations in water levels made it impossible for loons to nest, and =
the floating platform offered some potential help to offset this =
human-caused impact. Banks are undergoing a remarkable stabilization =
since the turbines have ceased operations, but again this year, I =
struggle to find a suitable location. One of the best sites closest to =
my house had a report of 5 eagles sitting in the tree above a little =
cove where I thought the loons might nest, and the same observer saw one =
of the eagles flying with nesting material to a site behind the cove. =
It's unlikely this site will work for loons, despite the Annapolis River =
offering ideal habitat with a bountiful fish population. =20
>>=20
>> It is delightful to hear the call of the loon from this river at =
night, so I'll give it a try but chances of success are likely slim.
>>=20
>> What's the solution? Rendering plants for our chicken carcasses, =
fewer eagles (this will take a while to take effect, since they are =
long-lived), and striving for better balance. =20
>>=20
>> Regarding historical populations of gulls: =20
>>=20
>> John G. T. Anderson =
<https://bioone.org/search?author=3DJohn_G._T._Anderson>, Katherine R. =
Shlepr <https://bioone.org/search?author=3DKatherine_R._Shlepr>, =
Alexander L. Bond <https://bioone.org/search?author=3DAlexander_L._Bond>, =
Robert A. Ronconi=C2=A0=C2=A0 2016.A Historical Perspective on Trends in =
Some Gulls in Eastern North America, with Reference to Other Regions =
<https://bioone.org/search?author=3DRobert_A._Ronconi>
>> Donna Crossland
>>=20
>> Tupperville, NS
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 2020-04-05 12:27 a.m., Burkhard Plache wrote:
>>> To your claim that gulls increased in numbers:
>>> My understanding is that they took advantage of open landfills
>>> and also discard of fishing fleets. At least that is the common
>>> understanding of the situation in Europe.
>>> With the closure of open landfills, gull numbers declined.
>>>=20
>>> My remark should not distract from the fact that human
>>> interventions (intentional or unintentional) tend to have
>>> unexpected and/or unintended consequences.
>>>=20
>>> Burkhard
>>>=20
>>> --------------
>>> Re: David Webster
>>>=20
>>> [...] This reminds my of the Sea Gull cycle.
>>>=20
>>> The common Gull became threatened in the early 1900's due to
>>> harvesting of eggs for food so egg gathering was forbidden. They
>>> responded gradually and eventually became so abundant that they were
>>> threatening Terns.
>>>=20
>>> A sensible solution would have been to allow Sea Gull egg
>>> harvesting but instead people were hired (or rounded up) to make
>>> distracting noises whenever a male gull was about to get lucky in
>>> areas where Terns also nested.
>>>=20
>>> So one by one, and I would not care to predict what will take =
the
>>> hit, but logically waterfowl which frequent fresh water/coastal =
water
>>> will be vulnerable. Perhaps even Sea gulls or Terns.
>>=20
>>=20
>> <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>=09
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.=20=
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>> <x-msg://1/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
--Apple-Mail=_81E309F2-65F2-4C9D-83D7-07BB85D19F02
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=us-ascii
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Hi All,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Could =
anybody explain to me how it became common practise (and apparently =
legal) for farmers to dispose of dead livestock in a manner as is =
being done with the chickens in the Valley?<div class=3D"">Correct me if =
I am wrong but I thought that there are strict regulations in NS re. the =
disposal of dead animals like f.e. a dead calf.</div><div class=3D"">Why =
do these rules not apply to chickens?</div><div class=3D"">Thanks, Henk =
Kwindt, Cow Bay, NS.<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Apr 5, 2020, at 11:38 AM, =
David Webster <<a href=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.com" =
class=3D"">dwebster@glinx.com</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">
=20
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D"">
=20
<div class=3D""><p class=3D"">Hi Donna & All,</p><p =
class=3D""> It had to happen eventually. Within a =
hypothetical margin of
communication blurr Donna, we are in total agreement. And you
expressed my misgivings very well.<br class=3D"">
</p><p class=3D""> I do not know the modern =
poultry industry but I suspect those
hens die of heart failure or grief as opposed to disease. Never
able to walk , see sunlight or experience any exercise other than
eating and laying eggs is not a balanced life. Far cry from =
the
traditional dooryard hens who had the run of the 'lawn', sometimes
a wake of chicks, and by the puk, puk... sounds seemed to be happy
and they did a great job of mowing the lawn and, under any apple
tree, of controlling apple maggot.</p><p class=3D"">YT, DW, =
Kentville<br class=3D"">
</p>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 4/5/2020 10:16 AM, Donna Crossland
wrote:<br class=3D"">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" =
cite=3D"mid:45b873e6-45e2-abcb-287e-b90df89fd199@eastlink.ca" class=3D"">
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D""><p class=3D"">I can't resist supporting =
Burkard's statement regarding the
intended/unintended consequences of humans on wild =
populations.<br class=3D"">
</p><p class=3D"">Food-supplemented eagle populations created from =
industrial
poultry operations in Kings County are having a far-reaching
negative effect on other species in other counties, and possibly
other provinces. Hopefully we are starting to recognize =
this
and will work together to curb the trend, starting by no longer
feeding eagles. (It's a mystery how the tossing out of =
poultry,
dead of questionable causes, is not considered a biofood
security issue...(?))<br class=3D"">
</p><p class=3D"">Many who spend time in the wilder places of NS, =
and those who
live near lakes, know of the detrimental effects of increasing
eagle numbers, but we have only anecdotal evidence to support
concerns. Hopefully we won't actually need a formal study =
to
realize that feeding and augmenting eagle populations is a bad
idea, now that they have recovered from DDT. Holding =
special
eagle events with ~ 40 eagles rather than 400 eagles, should
still provide an impressive show, while being mindful of the
needs and struggles of other bird species such as loons and
osprey. 'Balance' should be the goal. But I am =
afraid that no
one seems to be in charge of setting this goal, or looking at
critical thresholds. One department says the issue of =
feeding
eagles falls under the auspices of the other. Such high =
numbers
of eagles in a small area should ring alarm bells by anyone's
standards. This as an unnaturally high population that can =
and
does have unintended consequences. <br class=3D"">
</p><p class=3D"">A few years ago, I had opportunity to chat with =
Dr Malcolm
Hunter, well known wildlife biologist, about our unnaturally
high eagle populations. He fully agreed that inflated =
eagle
numbers are problematic, and stated that there are similar
consequences from increasing eagle populations in the US, making
particular reference to eagle impacts on nesting heron
colonies. A quick internet search reveals lots of concerns
stated over declines of heron colonies. As well, some =
folks on
PEI have noted rising eagle numbers (likely Kings Co eagles?)
and predation on nesting osprey. <br class=3D"">
</p><p class=3D"">Numerous nature-loving people in =
Queens-Annapolis Counties have
recounted tormented stories of watching nesting eagles
relentlessly harass and kill loon chicks. A loon =
chick,
flightless until autumn, cannot change lakes and spends the
whole season trying to avoid being eaten by eagles. The =
large
numbers of eagles in the Annapolis Valley disperse to nest on
numerous Nova Scotia lakes where food sources are much more
limited than 'down on the chicken farm'. The common =
loon has a
load of stressors placed on it already, with acidic lakes,
altered fish populations, high methyl mercury levels in many
lakes, and remote lakes on which they have nested on for
centuries now lined with cottages- all add up to placing our
loon populations in jeopardy. <br class=3D"">
</p><p class=3D"">Over the past week or so, I have been searching =
for a suitable
location to place an artificial, floating loon nest =
platform on
the Annapolis River. Prior to the shut down of the =
turbines the
high fluctuations in water levels made it impossible for loons
to nest, and the floating platform offered some potential help
to offset this human-caused impact. Banks are undergoing a
remarkable stabilization since the turbines have ceased
operations, but again this year, I struggle to find a suitable
location. One of the best sites closest to my house had a
report of 5 eagles sitting in the tree above a little cove where
I thought the loons might nest, and the same observer saw one of
the eagles flying with nesting material to a site behind the
cove. It's unlikely this site will work for loons, despite =
the
Annapolis River offering ideal habitat with a bountiful fish
population. <br class=3D"">
</p><p class=3D"">It is delightful to hear the call of the loon =
from this river
at night, so I'll give it a try but chances of success are
likely slim.<br class=3D"">
</p><p class=3D"">What's the solution? Rendering plants for =
our chicken
carcasses, fewer eagles (this will take a while to take effect,
since they are long-lived), and striving for better =
balance. <br class=3D"">
</p><p class=3D"">Regarding historical populations of =
gulls: <br class=3D"">
</p>
<div class=3D"row ProceedingsArticleOpenAccessRow" =
style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; margin-right: -15px; width: 765px; =
margin-top: 10px; font-family: utopia-std, Georgia, serif; font-size: =
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(229, 230, 231); =
margin-left: 0px !important;"><a =
href=3D"https://bioone.org/search?author=3DJohn_G._T._Anderson" =
style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; =
text-decoration: underline; outline: none; background-position: initial =
initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">John G. T. Anderson</a>,<span class=3D""> </span><a =
href=3D"https://bioone.org/search?author=3DKatherine_R._Shlepr" =
style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; =
text-decoration: underline; outline: none; background-position: initial =
initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">Katherine R. Shlepr</a>,<span class=3D""> </span><a =
href=3D"https://bioone.org/search?author=3DAlexander_L._Bond" =
style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; =
text-decoration: underline; outline: none; background-position: initial =
initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">Alexander L. Bond</a>,<span class=3D""> </span><a =
href=3D"https://bioone.org/search?author=3DRobert_A._Ronconi" =
style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; =
text-decoration: underline; outline: none; background-position: initial =
initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" =
class=3D"">Robert A. Ronconi 2016.A Historical
Perspective on Trends in Some Gulls in Eastern North America,
with Reference to Other Regions</a></div><p class=3D"">Donna =
Crossland</p><p class=3D"">Tupperville, NS<br class=3D"">
</p><p class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</p>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-04-05 12:27 a.m., Burkhard
Plache wrote:<br class=3D"">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" =
cite=3D"mid:CAD2SNSDTFmSm96vvdyJ1h0BYfPAUXYOz1m56b2w_QN6eDgs=3D-A@mail.gma=
il.com" class=3D"">
<pre class=3D"moz-quote-pre" wrap=3D"">To your claim that gulls =
increased in numbers:
My understanding is that they took advantage of open landfills
and also discard of fishing fleets. At least that is the common
understanding of the situation in Europe.
With the closure of open landfills, gull numbers declined.
My remark should not distract from the fact that human
interventions (intentional or unintentional) tend to have
unexpected and/or unintended consequences.
Burkhard
--------------
Re: David Webster
[...] This reminds my of the Sea Gull cycle.
The common Gull became threatened in the early 1900's due to
harvesting of eggs for food so egg gathering was forbidden. They
responded gradually and eventually became so abundant that they were
threatening Terns.
A sensible solution would have been to allow Sea Gull egg
harvesting but instead people were hired (or rounded up) to make
distracting noises whenever a male gull was about to get lucky in
areas where Terns also nested.
So one by one, and I would not care to predict what will take the
hit, but logically waterfowl which frequent fresh water/coastal water
will be vulnerable. Perhaps even Sea gulls or Terns.
</pre>
</blockquote>
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