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Index of Subjects Hi Dave, Tough to think about in a simple word-thought framework. Reinforcing Burkhard, from the middle of your post you have re-invented an earlier (1929) then seriously-considered idea that the observed redshift could be attributed to photons losing energy and so increasing in wavelength (getting ‘redder') as they interact with interstellar matter, in a static (non-expanding) universe. Proposed originally by Fritz Zwicky and still occasionally mentioned as a remotely possible alternative to an expanding universe even in recent scientific literature, it’s known sometimes as the tired light hypothesis. Take a look at the detailed article in Wikipedia “Tired light”. The latter idea predicts for example that the surface brightness of increasingly distant objects can be subjected to the 'Tolman surface brightness test', which it fails, where the relativistic expanding universe hypothesis succeeds. More distant objects should appear increasingly blurred in a static universe where photons are scattered by passing interactions, but this is not observed either. No current observational data accord with it. The article suggests that the idea has been consigned to the dustbin of history by serious astrophysicists and the like. Steve On Feb 21, 2019, at 8:32 PM, Burkhard Plache <burkhardplache@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi David, > > the model of the expansion of the universe (Big Bang model) does not > rely solely on the red shift of light, but on a number of other > observations. > See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang#Observational_evidence > The current model is a consensus, in fair agreement with those > observations. (As in any model, there are some hm-hm-s.) > Some observations of the universe (horizon, flatness, addressed a bit > further down in the wikipedia article) the big bang model does not > address or explain. > Thus, the model is considered incomplete, or a work in progress. > > In the past, there have been ideas to 'explain away the expansion of > the universe' by postulating light might be losing energy over > distance or over time. > None of those ideas have survived observational scrutiny, esp. since > with those modifications, the other observations do not fit into a > larger model. > Like too many balls to juggle at the same time. Thus, Occam's Razor > favours the redshift. > > Your suggestion that light might interact with light is generally > valid. Such interactions have been seen in experiments, and are in > agreement with theory (Quantum Electro Dynamics, to be precise). > However, the photon-photon interaction probability is (a) extremely > low, and (b) not a way to systematically lower photon energies (due to > energy conservation). > > Your suggestion that 'the most remote sources [...] appear to be > receding faster than the speed of light' is simply not correct or a > misunderstanding. > Not sure where you got that information. Such statements are often > repeated, but that does not make them true. > > You may also want to read the 'Misconceptions' section in the > wikipedia article, which addresses your 'In the Beginning' notion. > > Sorry to shoot down your suggestions. > You are not the first one to express such ideas, > Burkhard > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 7:49 PM David <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote: >> >> Dear All, >> I still have a problem with the big bang model; a modern version of "In the beginning" and wonder if there are alternative interpretations of observations. >> For example, sound is a wave in gas and sound can be silenced by generating waves which are 90o out of phase with the incoming sound. This is used in choppers e.g. so radio sounds in earphones are not swamped by chopper thub thub noise. >> Light has properties of a wave and the concept of the big bang and an expanding universe is founded on the observation of greater red shift with greater distance from the observer. >> This red shift can involve light which has been traveling for billions of years. Frequency of light is a function energy; waves with less energy have longer wavelengths. So any very unlikely parasitic interference which once in say 100,000 years might drain off a bit of energy could be the source of the red shift. I understand that the most remote sources, based on red shift, appear to be receding at speeds greater than the speed of light. And this is a double contradiction; c is the absolute speed limit and if they are speeding away faster than light how could we see them ? There has to be something wrong with this picture. >> So combining the above, why would it not be possible for light waves from multiple sources to infrequently interfere in ways which somehow drained energy and thereby decreased wavelength of light from a given source, giving rise to an apparent red shift effect ? This would happen not at the source but during travel. This would superficially at least fit the observations. As distance between observer and source increased there would be greater opportunity for this parasitic decrease in wave energy to take place. >> YT,, DW, Kentville
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