next message in archive
no next message in thread
previous message in archive
previous message in thread
Index of Subjects
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Jim This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_026A_01D17D32.D6D00990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Paul & All, Mar 13, 2016 I never hunted Geese, except with binoculars, and except in the = Shubie. Wildlife Park rarely or perhaps never was within shotgun range. = They, compared to the Eskimo Curlew, are huge and I agree that a 22, = although illegal I believe, would be a more effective way to gather = Geese for food than any gauge of shotgun.=20 My small bore shotgun was intended to suitably arm the bird watcher = out to gather tongue in cheek ultimate proof of Eskimo Curley = non-extinction. More about that later. In early days, so I understand from information gleaned from Lord = knows where in the 50's, when specimens were needed for taxonomic = studies 28 gauge was used with a minimum charge of medium to very small = shot depending upon the bird size; barely enough to drop it with minimum = damage to plumage.=20 As bird size decreases and especially if they are readily within = shotgun range and in motion then a shotgun is indicated (less wasted = meat and fewer missed shots) but, as with anything else, it helps to be = there and failing that a first-hand account is the next best thing.=20 Typical Passenger Pigeon size was, from internet sources, 24" = wingspan, length 17". tail length 8" and, John Muir (The story of my = boyhood and youth) gives first-hand accounts of relatively large flocks = being hunted for table use (not market hunting) as follows: "Every = shotgun was aimed at them and everybody feasted on pigeon pies...".=20 Market hunting was another matter and John makes use of Audubon's = first-hand accounts. As observed by Audubon the hunting was at night, = mostly after the flocks were on night roosts. They were either knocked = from the roosts using long poles or clubbed after branches (and = sometimes entire trees) broke under the weight of birds. Guns were also = used but in the flickering light of pine torches or near darkness and in = a mob of people gathering, plucking and salting birds, horses hauling = wagons of birds away and eventually pigs let loose (to eat missed birds) = use of a rifle seems unlikely to say the least. When squabs were = gathered, large areas of trees were felled and the young birds were = transported from Wisconsin to New York where they were sold at a penny = each. Some were baited and caught in nets. The Eskimo Curlew was even smaller; 12" long and to judge from = illustrations the body would be about 6" long and relatively slim. I = have seen no accounts of market hunting but, from internet sources, = about 2 million were killed annually in the late 1800's. Getting back to extinction questions, and this was the meat of my = original post, it does not make sense to apply Boolean logic [Is/is not] = to a system with huge observational uncertainty. Sweating buckets to = decide between is/is not extinct if anything detracts from a summary of = the raw data which I understand to be 'few confirmed observations in the = last 50 years and possibly extinct or near extinction'. In the absence = of a well organized and systematic multi-year survey of areas where/when = a bird like the Eskimo Curlew should be seen the question is best left = hanging and just let the evidence, such as it is, accumulate. And why = bother; knowing for sure that it is extinct will not bring it back.=20 =20 It is more productive I think to focus energy and resources on = slowing the rate of environmental degradation in one's immediate area or = possibly reversing this at least locally than to literally study = problems, at great expense, at the far ends of the earth.=20 There are likely Arthropods in most habitats in NS which are not yet = known to be present here. It does not take much looking to notice that = an unkempt yard and unmowed lawn provides habitat for life and that = frequent use of a rotary mower and trucking yard "waste" away for = composting degrades potential habitat for life. Happy lawn unmanagement, DW, Kentville =20 =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca=20 To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20 Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Eskimo Curlew article, March 8/16, Valley = Harvester -- was Endangered Species Articles =EF=BB=BF Well Dave the stories I heard in my younger days from=20 old retired market hunters of which there was quite a few in the = Maritimes=20 and they agreed with Zack - small bore I agree but rifles.=20 And they didn't use small bore shotguns either! More like 8 guage and=20 even punt guns. The rifles were used when the geese were out of = shotgun=20 range - over 40 yards.=20 Market hunters were very useful members of the community before = electricity=20 came around. A fresh goose at St Patricks day was as prized as a = turkey at Thanksgiving=20 or Christmas. No KFC in those days!=20 Its unfortunate the stories of market hunters were forgotten when=20 it became illegal and looked down upon.=20 Will those days return?=20 Enjoy the last of winter=20 Paul=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 On March 11, 2016 at 9:20 PM David & Alison Webster = <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote:=20 Hi All, Mar 11, 2016=20 I guess the moral of that story is this >). If you wish to = establish beyond all doubt that a very sparse bird is not yet extinct = then you should go armed. But a small bore shotgun would be more likely = to furnish proof than a rifle which, contrary to Zack's comment (" dense = flocks were often met by hunters and their rifles,"), I don't think = would ever have been used for market hunting of birds.=20 Remember the Coelacanth; even if you can't remember how to spell = it. Sixty five million years (65,000,000) is greater than fifty (50) by = a wide margin.=20 It is sort of like the lost watch. One can prove that it really = is not lost by finding it. But it is not possible to prove with absolute = certainty that it really is lost. And if you find it don't shoot it. = There are better ways to kill time.=20 Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville=20 =20 Yt, DW=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rick Whitman=20 To: naturens=20 Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 8:28 PM=20 Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Eskimo Curlew article, March 8/16, Valley = Harvester -- was Endangered Species Articles=20 =20 = http://valleyharvester.ca/2016/03/08/the-eskimo-curlew-the-schrodingers-c= at-of-endangered-species/=20 On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Jim Wolford = <jimwolford@eastlink.ca> wrote:=20 The newspaper is the Valley Harvester =E2=80=94 Google that and = then search =E2=80=9CZack Metcalfe=E2=80=9D, and I got the article right = away, complete with an Audubon illustration. Cheers from Jim, in = Wolfville.=20 Begin forwarded message:=20 From: Angus MacLean <cold_mac@hotmail.com> Subject: [NatureNS] Endangered Species Articles Date: March 11, 2016 at 4:04:42 PM AST To: naturens <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca> Reply-To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca The Annapolis Valley has several free weekly newspapers. In = one of them, the Weekly Harvester, Zack Metcalfe has been featured for = quite some time in a series on endangered species which he terms the = Endangered Perspective. As one would expect most feature birds & this = week's article is on the Eskimo Curlew.=20 =20 The Weekly Harvester has a website but unfortunately Mr. = Metcalfe's article is not accessible.=20 For those of you outside of the Valley, remember to pick up a = copy whenever you're here. They can be found in most shops, markets.=20 Angus=20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4540/11795 - Release Date: = 03/11/16 =20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4540/11795 - Release Date: = 03/11/16 ------=_NextPart_000_026A_01D17D32.D6D00990 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8" http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588"> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Hi Paul & All, = =20 = =20 Mar 13, 2016</DIV> <DIV> I never hunted Geese, except with binoculars, = and except=20 in the Shubie. Wildlife Park rarely or perhaps never was within = shotgun=20 range. They, compared to the Eskimo Curlew, are huge and I = agree that=20 a 22, although illegal I believe, would be a more effective way to = gather=20 Geese for food than any gauge of shotgun. </DIV> <DIV> My small bore shotgun was intended to = suitably=20 arm the bird watcher out to gather <EM>tongue in cheek</EM> = ultimate proof=20 of Eskimo Curley non-extinction. More about that later.</DIV> <DIV> In early days, so I understand from information = gleaned=20 from Lord knows where in the 50's, when specimens were needed for = taxonomic=20 studies 28 gauge was used with a minimum charge of medium to very small = shot=20 depending upon the bird size; barely enough to drop it with minimum = damage to=20 plumage. </DIV> <DIV> As bird size decreases and especially if they = are=20 readily within shotgun range and in motion then a shotgun is indicated = (less=20 wasted meat and fewer missed shots) but, as with anything = else, it=20 helps to be there and failing that a first-hand account is the next best = thing.=20 </DIV> <DIV> Typical Passenger Pigeon size was, = from=20 internet sources, 24" wingspan, length 17". tail length 8" and, = John Muir=20 (The story of my boyhood and youth) gives first-hand accounts of = relatively=20 large flocks being hunted for table use (not market hunting) as follows: = "Every=20 <STRONG>shotgun</STRONG> was aimed at them and everybody feasted on = pigeon=20 pies...". </DIV> <DIV> Market hunting was another matter and John makes = use of=20 Audubon's first-hand accounts. As observed by Audubon the = hunting was=20 at night, mostly after the flocks were on night roosts. They were = either=20 knocked from the roosts using long poles or clubbed after branches (and=20 sometimes entire trees) broke under the weight of birds. Guns were also=20 used but in the flickering light of pine torches or near = darkness and=20 in a mob of people gathering, plucking and salting birds, horses=20 hauling wagons of birds away and eventually pigs let = loose (to=20 eat missed birds) use of a rifle seems unlikely to say the=20 least. When squabs were gathered, large areas of trees were felled = and the=20 young birds were transported from Wisconsin to New York where they were = sold at=20 a penny each. Some were baited and caught in nets.</DIV> <DIV> The Eskimo Curlew was even smaller; 12" long and = to=20 judge from illustrations the body would be about 6" long and relatively = slim. I=20 have seen no accounts of market hunting but, from internet sources, = about 2=20 million were killed annually in the late 1800's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Getting back to extinction questions, and this = was the=20 meat of my original post, it does not make sense to apply Boolean logic = [Is/is=20 not] to a system with huge observational uncertainty. Sweating = buckets to=20 decide between is/is not extinct if anything detracts from a summary of = the raw=20 data which I understand to be 'few confirmed observations in the last 50 = years=20 and possibly extinct or near extinction'. In the absence of a well = organized and=20 systematic multi-year survey of areas where/when a bird like the Eskimo = Curlew=20 should be seen the question is best left hanging and just let the = evidence, such=20 as it is, accumulate. And why bother; knowing for sure that it is = extinct=20 will not bring it back. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> It is more productive I think to focus energy = and=20 resources on slowing the rate of environmental degradation in one's = immediate area or possibly reversing this at least locally than to = literally=20 study problems, at great expense, at the far ends of the earth. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> There are likely Arthropods in = most habitats in=20 NS which are not yet known to be present here. It does not = take much=20 looking to notice that an unkempt yard and unmowed lawn provides habitat = for=20 life and that frequent use of a rotary mower and trucking yard "waste" = away for=20 composting degrades potential habitat for life.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Happy lawn unmanagement,</DIV> <DIV>DW, Kentville</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; = PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20 dir=3Dltr> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Drita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca=20 = href=3D"mailto:rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca">rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dnaturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20 href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 12, 2016 = 9:42=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NatureNS] Eskimo = Curlew=20 article, March 8/16, Valley Harvester -- was Endangered Species = Articles</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>=EF=BB=BF Well Dave the stories I heard in my younger days from = </DIV> <DIV>old retired market hunters of which there was quite a few in the=20 Maritimes </DIV> <DIV>and they agreed with Zack - small bore I agree but rifles. </DIV> <DIV>And they didn't use small bore shotguns either! More like 8 guage = and=20 </DIV> <DIV>even punt guns. The rifles were used when the geese were out of = shotgun=20 </DIV> <DIV>range - over 40 yards. </DIV> <DIV>Market hunters were very useful members of the community before=20 electricity </DIV> <DIV>came around. A fresh goose at St Patricks day was as prized as a = turkey=20 at Thanksgiving </DIV> <DIV>or Christmas. No KFC in those days! </DIV> <DIV>Its unfortunate the stories of market hunters were forgotten when = </DIV> <DIV>it became illegal and looked down upon. </DIV> <DIV>Will those days return? </DIV> <DIV>Enjoy the last of winter </DIV> <DIV>Paul </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"POSITION: relative; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1px solid; = PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px"=20 type=3D"cite">On March 11, 2016 at 9:20 PM David & Alison Webster=20 <dwebster@glinx.com> wrote: <BR><BR> <DIV>Hi All, = = =20 Mar 11, 2016 </DIV> <DIV> I guess the moral of that story is this = >). If=20 you wish to establish beyond all doubt that a very sparse = bird is=20 not yet extinct then you should go armed. But a small bore shotgun = would be=20 more likely to furnish proof than a rifle which, contrary to Zack's = comment=20 (" <SPAN=20 style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: left; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff; TEXT-INDENT: 10px; DISPLAY: inline; FONT: 13px/22px 'Droid = Sans'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; FLOAT: none; COLOR: #555555; WORD-SPACING: = 0px; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">dense=20 flocks were often met by hunters and their rifles,")</SPAN>, I = don't=20 think would ever have been used for market hunting of birds. = </DIV> <DIV> Remember the Coelacanth; even if you can't = remember=20 how to spell it. Sixty five million years (65,000,000) is greater = than fifty=20 (50) by a wide margin. </DIV> <DIV> It is sort of like the lost watch. One can = prove=20 that it really is not lost by finding it. But it is = not possible to=20 prove with absolute certainty that it really is lost. And if you = find it=20 don't shoot it. There are better ways to kill time. </DIV> <DIV>Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yt, DW </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; = PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: = normal">-----=20 Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-size-adjust: = none; font-stretch: normal; font-color: black"><STRONG>From:</STRONG>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:dendroica.caerulescens@gmail.com">Rick = Whitman</A> </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: = normal"><STRONG>To:</STRONG>=20 naturens </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: = normal"><STRONG>Sent:</STRONG>=20 Friday, March 11, 2016 8:28 PM </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: = normal"><STRONG>Subject:</STRONG>=20 Re: [NatureNS] Eskimo Curlew article, March 8/16, Valley Harvester = -- was=20 Endangered Species Articles </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><A=20 = href=3D"http://valleyharvester.ca/2016/03/08/the-eskimo-curlew-the-schrod= ingers-cat-of-endangered-species/">http://valleyharvester.ca/2016/03/08/t= he-eskimo-curlew-the-schrodingers-cat-of-endangered-species/</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV class=3Dgmail_extra><BR> <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Jim = Wolford=20 <SPAN><<A href=3D"mailto:jimwolford@eastlink.ca"=20 target=3D_blank>jimwolford@eastlink.ca</A>></SPAN> wrote: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px = 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"> <DIV>The newspaper is the Valley Harvester =E2=80=94 Google that = and then search=20 =E2=80=9CZack Metcalfe=E2=80=9D, and I got the article right = away, complete with an=20 Audubon illustration. Cheers from Jim, in Wolfville. <BR> <DIV><BR> <DIV>Begin forwarded message: </DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"> <DIV style=3D"MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><STRONG>From: = </STRONG></SPAN><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'">Angus MacLean <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:cold_mac@hotmail.com"=20 target=3D_blank>cold_mac@hotmail.com</A>><BR></SPAN></DIV> <DIV style=3D"MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><STRONG>Subject:=20 </STRONG></SPAN><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><STRONG>[NatureNS] = Endangered Species=20 Articles</STRONG><BR></SPAN></DIV> <DIV style=3D"MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><STRONG>Date: = </STRONG></SPAN><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'">March 11, 2016 at 4:04:42 = PM=20 AST<BR></SPAN></DIV> <DIV style=3D"MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><STRONG>To: = </STRONG></SPAN><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'">naturens <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"=20 = target=3D_blank>naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A>><BR></SPAN></DIV> <DIV style=3D"MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><STRONG>Reply-To:=20 </STRONG></SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><A=20 href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"=20 = target=3D_blank>naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A><BR></SPAN></DIV><BR> <DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; FONT: 12pt = Calibri; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-size-adjust: none; = font-stretch: normal"> <DIV dir=3Dltr>The Annapolis Valley has several free weekly = newspapers.=20 In one of them, the Weekly Harvester, Zack Metcalfe has been = featured=20 for quite some time in a series on endangered species which he = terms=20 the Endangered Perspective. As one would expect most feature = birds=20 & this week's article is on the Eskimo Curlew. <BR> = <BR>The=20 Weekly Harvester has a website but unfortunately Mr. = Metcalfe's=20 article is not accessible. <BR><BR>For those of you outside of = the=20 Valley, remember to pick up a copy whenever you're here. They = can be=20 found in most shops, markets. <BR>Angus=20 = </DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV><A></= A> <P align=3Dleft>No virus found in this message.<BR>Checked by AVG = - <A=20 href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: = 2016.0.7442 / Virus=20 Database: 4540/11795 - Release Date: = 03/11/16</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR> </DIV><A></A> <P align=3Dleft color=3D"#000000" avgcert??>No virus found in this=20 message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A=20 href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2016.0.7442 / = Virus=20 Database: 4540/11795 - Release Date: = 03/11/16</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_026A_01D17D32.D6D00990--
next message in archive
no next message in thread
previous message in archive
previous message in thread
Index of Subjects