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Mar 2, 2016 at 8:01 PM, David &amp; Alison Webster <span dir=3D"ltr">& --001a11c3869a0415a6052d38d331 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Having read this paper, those of us of a certain age may be asking "Hmmm, where DID the last 45 years go, anyway ??" They certainly didn't go very far towards addressing the main themes in this article. More the reverse, perhaps, with somewhat recent minor progress in the "right" directions. Rick Whitman On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 11:54 AM, David & Alison Webster <dwebster@glinx.com= > wrote: > Hi Nancy & All, > That version of the Daly article is much longer than the printed > version I saved. Good to see the more complete text. > The quote from Bertrand Russell is priceless-- from Daly's chapter; > pasted below-- > > In the 1930's the late Bertrand Russell proposed a policy of leisure > growth rather than commodity growth and viewed the unemployment question = in > terms of the distribution of leisure. The following words are from his > essay, "In Praise of Idleness:" > > Suppose that, at a given moment, a certain number of people are engaged i= n > the manufacture of pins. They make as many pins as the world needs, worki= ng > (say) eight hours a day. Someone makes an invention by which the same > number of men can make twice as many pins as before. But the world does n= ot > need twice as many pins. Pins are already so cheap that hardly any more > will be bought at a lower price. In a sensible world, everybody concerned > in the manufacture of pins would take to working four hours instead of > eight and everything else would go on as before. But in the actual world > this would be thought demoralizing. The men still work eight hours, there > are too many pins, some employers go bankrupt, and half the men previousl= y > concerned in making pins are thrown out of work. There is in the end just > as much leisure as on the other plan, but half the men are totally idle > while half are still overworked. In this way it is insured that the > unavoidable leisure shall cause misery all round instead of being a > universal source of happiness. Can anything more insane be imagined. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* N Robinson <nrobbyn@gmail.com> > *To:* naturens@chebucto.ns.ca > *Sent:* Thursday, March 03, 2016 12:00 AM > *Subject:* Re: Consumerism & global warming Long: Re: [NatureNS] Leap > Day, Leap Manifesto, global warming, Academy Awards > > Thanks for this reference, David - a dense and fascinating article that > can be found online: > > http://dieoff.org/page41.htm > > "Toward a New Economics: Questioning Growth" by Herman E. Daly > > Nancy > > > On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 8:01 PM, David & Alison Webster <dwebster@glinx.co= m > > wrote: > >> Hi Jim & All, >> Mar 2, 2016 >> Quoting Jim "what can/should be done about this anthropogenic >> problem." >> >> A) About 1950, long before global warming surfaced, I concluded >> that rampant consumerism, mechanization and the massive highway system >> which would be needed to serve the dream of a car (or several vehicles) = in >> every driveway would quickly shred the environment and generate >> unemployment. >> >> In the mid 50's a common joke was "If all the economists in the worl= d >> were laid end to end they would still all point in different directions"= . >> >> Now one would have to restate that to "If all the economists in the >> world were laid end to end they would still all point in the >> wrong direction" and it is no longer amusing. >> >> When global warming came along in the late 60's it seemed obvious >> that combating global warming was desirable, even if it turned out to be= a >> fiction, because actions to combat global warming, reduced consumption o= f >> fossil fuels, would also help to at least reduce the destructive effects >> of the above slow motion train wreck (A).. >> >> At about that time I somewhere ran into an interesting article"Toward a >> New Economics: Questioning Growth" by Herman E. Daly, pp. 47-52 in ?; to= re >> it out and saved it. This was an excerpt from a book The Patient Earth t= o >> be published in 1971 (which I never read). >> >> But it is still taken as gospel that GNP must increase each year or >> else and after interest rates have barely exceeded inflation for 5 years >> our head bankers imagine that lowering rates, perhaps into negative >> territory, will stimulate the economy by increasing consumption while, >> heaven forbid, not luring people into increasing their debt load And o= f >> course, at the same time, expressing the hope that people will also >> continue to save for the rainy day or old age whichever comes first. >> >> Or, in fewer words, if our financial leaders had a clue then the >> rattle would drive them crazy. >> >> Industry has found ways to force consumerism; shoddy goods. Our firs= t >> toaster, 1960 vintage, lasted 40 years; by taking it apart, turning a sc= rew >> here, bending a rod there, repairing a broken filament with a loop of >> wire... Our second toaster lasted one week, our third about one month an= d >> the fourth is still going after 15 years. None of the last three toaster= s >> can be taken apart so when something goes the unit also is toast. >> >> I doubt that governments can assume leadership in global warming any >> more than they have been able to come to grips with the folly of perpetu= al >> growth. And, in any case, the two are just different sides of the same >> cloth. >> >> It is up to individuals to reduce their direct or >> indirect consumption of fossil fuels. If enough make this choice then >> politicians may get onside. >> >> For those who have the patience to lobby for change, a huge reductio= n >> in motor vehicle traffic, highway construction, highway repair... could = be >> launched by a few strokes of a pen in government hands. With Motor Vehic= le >> Insurance and Registration as high as it is and gasoline as cheap as it = is >> there is little incentive to drive less. >> >> If Insurance and Registration were both proportional to distance >> driven then there would be real incentive for the public to demand and u= se >> effective public transit; less demand for wider highways, less traffic a= nd >> fewer accidents. All held back in an effort to keep that perpetual growt= h >> flywheel turning ever faster. >> >> >> End of rant. >> DW >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> *From:* Jim Wolford <jimwolford@eastlink.ca> >> *To:* naturens <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 01, 2016 8:03 PM >> *Subject:* [NatureNS] Leap Day, Leap Manifesto, global warming, Academy >> Awards >> >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> *From: *Jim Wolford <jimwolford@eastlink.ca> >> *Subject: **Leap Day, Leap Manifesto, global warming, Academy Awards* >> *Date: *March 1, 2016 at 6:38:35 PM AST >> *To: *Nature BNS <nature@blomidonnaturalists.ca> >> *Cc: *Jim Wolford <jimwolford@eastlink.ca> >> >> *FEB. 29, 2016* - *LEAP DAY! * Makes me think of the *Leap Manifesto >> movement,* ala Naomi Klein=E2=80=99s book and the similarly titled docum= entary >> filmed by Avi Lewis, *=E2=80=9CThis Changes Everything=E2=80=9D*, concer= ning global >> climate change and its repercussions and what can/should be done about t= his >> anthropogenic problem. >> >> I=E2=80=99m glad I was up late watching the end of the Academy Awards on= Sunday >> (yesterday). Leonardo DiCaprio won best actor for =E2=80=9CThe Revenant= =E2=80=9D, and his >> short acceptance speech ended with some very well-chosen words about >> climate change and the need for humanity to come to its senses finally a= nd >> so something about it. He finished with something like, =E2=80=9CI don= =E2=80=99t take our >> planet for granted, and I don=E2=80=99t take this award for granted.=E2= =80=9D >> >> If anyone knows how to get DiCaprio=E2=80=99s actual words on climate ch= ange, I >> would like to see them again. >> >> Perhaps* fittingly, today was abnormally very warm*, albeit with very >> strong winds. Apparently Greenwood, King=E2=80=99s County, Nova Scotia,= was the >> warmest spot in Canada at *17.6 degrees C.* >> >> *Cheers from Jim, in Wolfville.* >> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4537/11726 - Release Date: 03/01/= 16 >> >> > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4537/11731 - Release Date: 03/02/1= 6 > > --001a11c3869a0415a6052d38d331 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Having read this paper, those of us of a certain age may b= e asking "Hmmm, where DID the last 45 years go, anyway ??"<div><b= r></div><div>They certainly didn't go very far towards addressing the m= ain themes in this article. More the reverse, perhaps, with somewhat recent= minor progress in the "right" directions.</div><div><br></div><d= iv>Rick Whitman</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gma= il_quote">On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 11:54 AM, David & Alison Webster <span= dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.com" target=3D"_blank">dw= ebster@glinx.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"= style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u= ></u> <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"> <div>Hi Nancy & All,</div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 That version of the Daly article is much longer tha= n the=20 printed version I saved. Good to see the more complete text.</div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The quote from Bertrand Russell is priceless-- from= =20 Daly's chapter; pasted below-- </div> <div> <p style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;FONT:medium 'Times New = Roman';WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);WORD-S= PACING:0px">In=20 the 1930's the late Bertrand Russell proposed a policy of leisure growt= h rather=20 than commodity growth and viewed the unemployment question in terms of the= =20 distribution of leisure. The following words are from his essay, "In P= raise of=20 Idleness:"</p> <p style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;FONT:medium 'Times New = Roman';WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);WORD-S= PACING:0px">Suppose=20 that, at a given moment, a certain number of people are engaged in the=20 manufacture of pins. They make as many pins as the world needs, working (sa= y)=20 eight hours a day. Someone makes an invention by which the same number of m= en=20 can make twice as many pins as before. But the world does not need twice as= many=20 pins. Pins are already so cheap that hardly any more will be bought at a lo= wer=20 price. In a sensible world, everybody concerned in the manufacture of pins = would=20 take to working four hours instead of eight and everything else would go on= as=20 before. But in the actual world this would be thought demoralizing. The men= =20 still work eight hours, there are too many pins, some employers go bankrupt= , and=20 half the men previously concerned in making pins are thrown out of work. Th= ere=20 is in the end just as much leisure as on the other plan, but half the men a= re=20 totally idle while half are still overworked. In this way it is insured tha= t the=20 unavoidable leisure shall cause misery all round instead of being a univers= al=20 source of happiness. Can anything more insane be imagined.</p> <p style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;FONT:medium 'Times New = Roman';WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);WORD-S= PACING:0px">=C2=A0</p></div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING= -RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>=20 <a title=3D"nrobbyn@gmail.com" href=3D"mailto:nrobbyn@gmail.com" target= =3D"_blank">N Robinson</a>=20 </div> <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"naturens@chebucto.n= s.ca" href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca" target=3D"_blank">naturens@ch= ebucto.ns.ca</a> </div> <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 03, 2016 12:0= 0=20 AM</div> <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: Consumerism & glob= al=20 warming Long: Re: [NatureNS] Leap Day, Leap Manifesto, global warming, Ac= ademy=20 Awards</div> <div><br></div> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div>Thanks for this reference, David - a dense and fascinating article t= hat=20 can be found online:<br><br><a href=3D"http://dieoff.org/page41.htm" targ= et=3D"_blank">http://dieoff.org/page41.htm</a><br><br>"Toward a New Ec= onomics:=20 Questioning Growth" by Herman E. Daly<br><br></div>Nancy<br> <div><br> <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 8:01 PM, David & Al= ison=20 Webster <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:dwebster@glinx.com" targe= t=3D"_blank">dwebster@glinx.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0p= x 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><u></u> <div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word" bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"> <div>Hi Jim & All,=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Mar 2, 2016</div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Quoting Jim "what can/should be done about= this=20 anthropogenic problem."</div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div>=C2=A0A)=C2=A0=C2=A0 About 1950, long before global warming surfac= ed, I=20 concluded that=C2=A0rampant consumerism, mechanization and the massive= =20 highway system which would be needed to serve the dream of a car (or se= veral=20 vehicles)=C2=A0in every driveway would quickly shred the environment an= d=20 generate unemployment.=C2=A0</div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In the mid 50's a common joke was "If = all the=20 economists in the world were laid end to end they would still all point= in=20 different directions". </div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Now one would have to restate that to "If = all the=20 economists in the world were laid end to end they would still all point= =20 in=C2=A0the wrong=C2=A0direction" and it is no longer amusing. </d= iv> <div>=C2=A0</div></div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0When global warming came along in the late= =20 60's=C2=A0it seemed obvious that combating global warming was desir= able,=20 even if it turned out to be a fiction, because actions to combat global= =20 warming, reduced consumption of fossil fuels, would also help to at=20 least=C2=A0reduce the destructive effects of=C2=A0the above slow motion= =20 train wreck (A)..</div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div>At about that time I somewhere ran into an interesting article&quo= t;Toward a=20 New Economics: Questioning Growth" by Herman E. Daly,=C2=A0pp. 47-= 52 in ?;=20 tore it out and saved it. This was an excerpt from a book The Patient E= arth=20 to be published in 1971 (which I never read). </div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 But it is still taken as gospel that GNP must= =20 increase each year or else and after interest rates have barely exceede= d=20 inflation for 5 years our head bankers imagine that lowering rates, per= haps=20 into negative territory, will stimulate the economy by increasing=20 consumption while, heaven forbid, not luring people into increasing=C2= =A0=20 their debt load=C2=A0=C2=A0And of course, at the same time,=C2=A0expres= sing=20 the hope that people will also continue to save for the rainy day or ol= d age=20 whichever comes first. </div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Or, in fewer words, if our financial leaders ha= d a=20 clue then=C2=A0the rattle would drive them crazy.</div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Industry has found ways to force consumerism; s= hoddy=20 goods.=C2=A0Our first toaster, 1960 vintage, lasted 40 years; by taking= it=20 apart, turning a screw here, bending a rod there, repairing a broken=20 filament with a loop of wire... Our second toaster lasted one week, our= =20 third about one month and the fourth is still going after 15 years. Non= e of=20 the last three toasters can be taken apart so when something goes=C2=A0= the=20 unit also is toast.</div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I doubt that governments can assume leadership = in=20 global warming any more than they have been able to come to grips with = the=20 folly of perpetual growth. And, in any case, the two are just different= =20 sides of the same cloth.</div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It is up to individuals to reduce their direct = or=20 indirect=C2=A0consumption of fossil fuels. If enough make this choice t= hen=20 politicians may get onside.</div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 For those who have the patience to lobby for ch= ange,=20 a huge reduction in motor vehicle traffic, highway construction, highwa= y=20 repair... could be launched by a few strokes of a pen in government han= ds.=20 With Motor Vehicle Insurance and Registration as high as it is and gaso= line=20 as cheap as it is there is little incentive to drive less. </div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If Insurance and Registration were both proport= ional=20 to distance driven then there would be real incentive for the public to= =20 demand and use effective public transit; less demand for wider highways= ,=20 less traffic and fewer accidents. All held back in an effort to keep th= at=20 perpetual growth flywheel turning ever faster. </div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div>End of rant.</div> <div>DW</div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </div> <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </div> <div>=C2=A0</div> <div>----- Original Message ----- </div> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;= PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir=3D"ltr"> <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:rgb(228,228,228)"><b>From:</= b>=20 <a title=3D"jimwolford@eastlink.ca" href=3D"mailto:jimwolford@eastlin= k.ca" target=3D"_blank">Jim Wolford</a> </div> <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"naturens@chebuc= to.ns.ca" href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca" target=3D"_blank">naturen= s</a> </div> <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 01, 2016 8= :03=20 PM</div> <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> [NatureNS] Leap Day, L= eap=20 Manifesto, global warming, Academy Awards</div> <div><br></div><br> <div><br> <div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica= '"><b>From:=20 </b></span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica'">Jim Wolf= ord <<a href=3D"mailto:jimwolford@eastlink.ca" target=3D"_blank">jimwolf= ord@eastlink.ca</a>><br></span></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica= '"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica'= ;"><b>Leap Day, Leap Manifesto, global=20 warming, Academy Awards</b><br></span></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica= '"><b>Date:=20 </b></span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica'">March 1,= 2016 at=20 6:38:35 PM AST<br></span></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica= '"><b>To:=20 </b></span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica'">Nature B= NS <<a href=3D"mailto:nature@blomidonnaturalists.ca" target=3D"_blank">n= ature@blomidonnaturalists.ca</a>><br></span></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica= '"><b>Cc:=20 </b></span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'Helvetica'">Jim Wolf= ord <<a href=3D"mailto:jimwolford@eastlink.ca" target=3D"_blank">jimwolf= ord@eastlink.ca</a>><br></span></div><br> <div> <div style=3D"WORD-WRAP:break-word"> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px"><b>FEB. 29, 2016</b> - <b>LEAP DAY!=C2=A0= </b>=20 Makes me think of the <b>Leap Manifesto movement,</b> ala Naomi Kle= in=E2=80=99s=20 book and the similarly titled documentary filmed by Avi Lewis, <b>= =E2=80=9CThis=20 Changes Everything=E2=80=9D</b>, concerning global climate change a= nd its=20 repercussions and what can/should be done about this anthropogenic= =20 problem. =C2=A0</div> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px;MIN-HEIGHT:14px"><br></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px">I=E2=80=99m glad I was up late watching t= he end of the=20 Academy Awards on Sunday (yesterday).=C2=A0 Leonardo DiCaprio won b= est=20 actor for =E2=80=9CThe Revenant=E2=80=9D, and his short acceptance = speech ended with=20 some very well-chosen words about climate change and the need for= =20 humanity to come to its senses finally and so something about it.= =C2=A0=20 He finished with something like, =E2=80=9CI don=E2=80=99t take our = planet for granted,=20 and I don=E2=80=99t take this award for granted.=E2=80=9D</div> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px;MIN-HEIGHT:14px"><br></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px">If anyone knows how to get DiCaprio=E2=80= =99s actual=20 words on climate change, I would like to see them again.</div> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px;MIN-HEIGHT:14px"><br></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px">Perhaps<b> fittingly, today was abnormall= y very=20 warm</b>, albeit with very strong winds.=C2=A0 Apparently Greenwood= ,=20 King=E2=80=99s County, Nova Scotia, was the warmest spot in Canada = at <b>17.6=20 degrees C.</b></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px"><b><br></b></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN:0px"><b>Cheers from Jim, in=20 Wolfville.</b></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><a></a> <p align=3D"left" color=3D"#000000">No virus found in this message.<b= r>Checked=20 by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com" target=3D"_blank">www.avg.com= </a><br>Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database:=20 4537/11726 - Release Date:=20 03/01/16</p></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><= a></a> <p align=3D"left" color=3D"#000000">No virus found in this=20 message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com" target=3D"_bl= ank">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus=20 Database: 4537/11731 - Release Date: 03/02/16</p></blockquote></div> </blockquote></div><br></div> --001a11c3869a0415a6052d38d331--
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