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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012B_01D17206.63253C90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, Feb 28, 2016 I overlooked another aspect to the question of frost shortly after = sunrise; effective interception of solar radiation. This would apply to = some extent year round in all terrain and locations given calm clear = weather. On a global scale, the area of sunlight intercepted by the = earth is a disk equal to the cross-sectional area of the globe. A = portion of a recent private e-mail on this aspect is pasted below.=20 START OF PASTE\\\\\\\\\\\\ As one approaches the edge of this disk (sunrise) the effective area = of insolation realtive to the area of earth insolated (the interception = of radiation per unit area) approaches zero. Maximum insolation will be = when the sun is directly overhead. Elsewhere the incoming radiation per = unit area will be proportional to the sin of the angle of incidence. An object will continue to cool until incoming radiation exceeds=20 outgoing radiation. Sometimes it take a while to notice the obvious. =20 END OF PASTE Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville ----- Original Message -----=20 From: David & Alison Webster=20 To: NatureNS@chebucto.ns.ca=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 7:15 AM Subject: Reconsideration; ground frost Hi Paul, Andrew & All Oct 13, 2015 This didn't get posted the first time; perhaps because it had become = too large so I have pasted the original with several earlier exchanges = clipped. START OF PASTE\\\\\\\\\\ Hi Paul, Andrew & All, Oct 11, 2015 Having thought this over again, I suspect I overlooked the key = factor which bears on both the value of air movement and the timing of = greatest risk.=20 All bodies will radiate heat at rates (as I recall) which depend = only on their temperature and at temperatures under consideration there = will always be some heat lost by out radiation. Consequently thin or = small organs (with consequently low heat content), such as leaves and = flowers will continue to cool relatively rapidly by out radiation, and = cool the adjacent air by conduction unless this heat loss is offset by = heat gain. One possible way to replenish this heat loss, on a cloudless = night, is in radiation from haze or nearby warm objects. But I suspect = that air flow, provided the air is warmer than the sheath of cold air in = the vicinity of the leaf or flower, is far more effective in general. = Thus the value of air flow down a slope, wind machines and low aircraft. = Probably for much of NS the concepts of land breeze and sea breeze = apply: land breeze at night, when land is cooling off faster than the = sea, and sea breeze in the daytime, when land is warming rapidly = relative to the sea.=20 If the overall flow or air, when winds do not confuse matters, is = downhill at night and uphill in the daytime then there must be a period = of slack flow when downhill flow slows to zero and uphill flow is still = also zero. This turnaround period should start shortly after there has = been appreciable warming of high ground but not enough warming to = initiate a reverse of flow from low ground to high. Which roughly would = be shortly before sunrise at low elevation to an hour or so after = sunrise (a guess). As I recall this fits experience with frost quite = well.=20 When in doubt consult the manual; so I dug out my old Met. book last = evening and to my surprise found nothing on frost but a fair amount on = condensation and sublimation. And found that I had misremembered the = role of various particles and humidity in air.=20 Condensation nuclei are usually salt crystals or droplets of = sulfuric acid or smoke particles and sublimation nuclei are usually = particles of soil (according to this 1954 text). Condensation nuclei are hygroscopic and start to collect water at = about 80% RH but grow much faster at 96% RH or above. Sublimation starts = only after RH exceeds saturation by several percent. DW comment: Sublimation is the process which would be involved in = frost formation. Yours truly, DW My final answer. I promise; sort of. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: rita.paul@ns.sympatico.ca=20 To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20 Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 9:02 AM Subject: RE: Long: Re: [NatureNS] Frost in the morning Very interesting Dave and Andrew.=20 Up and out before the sun and not coming in til after dark was very interesting at this time of year. even if harvesting potatoes = was hard work!=20 One evening after the sun went down and we were finishing up one member of the crew pointed out a bright light going across the sky. More like the sun reflecting of metal rather than a light. It wasn't = very high higher than an airplane but not as high as satellites nowadays. From = the newspapers=20 of the day we deduced it was an early Russian satellite - an memorable = sighting.=20 Enjoy the day=20 Paul =20 > On October 10, 2015 at 8:21 PM "Hebda, Andrew J" = <Andrew.Hebda@novascotia.ca> wrote:=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Thanks David=20 >=20 > That makes sense.=20 >=20 > Now with a low tide (here at about 06:40 - Noel), that pretty well = guarantees the cold dense air will win tonight.=20 >=20 > A=20 END OF PASTE\\\\\\\\\\ ------=_NextPart_000_012B_01D17206.63253C90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588"> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Dear All, =20 = =20 Feb 28, 2016</DIV> <DIV> I overlooked another aspect to the question of = frost=20 shortly after sunrise; effective interception of solar = radiation. This=20 would apply to some extent year round in all terrain and locations given = calm=20 clear weather. On a global scale, the area of sunlight intercepted = by the=20 earth is a disk equal to the cross-sectional area of the globe. = A portion=20 of a recent private e-mail on this aspect is pasted below. </DIV> <DIV> START OF PASTE\\\\\\\\\\\\</DIV> <DIV> As one approaches the edge of this disk (sunrise) the=20 effective area of insolation