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the " Declines in This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D156C0.79845400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree that predation is an important selection pressure, but if various p= ressures on a population are so high that the population doesn=E2=80=99t ha= ve time to respond, aren=E2=80=99t we looking at extirpation or extinction?= From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca [mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca] = On Behalf Of David & Alison Webster Sent: January 24, 2016 3:33 PM To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Vancouver has new "bird strategy" Hi Nick & All, Jan 24, 2016 Once again I think your overall approach is sound. One should always at= tempt to stand back and identify the major forces before fussing about poss= ible minor forces. And if the context is species decline then it will be strange indeed if= the three major forces at play are not habitat quantity, habitat quality a= nd habitat continuity. Abundant food in July is worthless if May, June, Aug= ust and September are filled with want. Predation usually has the effect, on average, of removing the less agil= e, the less healthy and less the capable and thereby gives the remaining po= pulation better access to food, shelter etc and a better shot at survival. = For a stable population, temporary growth must be balanced by attrition. So= predation can have an effect on population only in extremely unusual circu= mstances [ e.g. flightless birds who evolved in the absence of flightless p= redators, such as rats.]. Swifts, so I understand, land only after they have entered a nesting or= communal roost. And I also understand their decline has been dramatic. How= much of their decline is due to flying cats or other super-cats who someho= w nab them just before or just after landing ? Yt, DW, Kentville ----- Original Message ----- From: Nicholas Hill <mailto:fernhillns@gmail.com> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Vancouver has new "bird strategy" yes Darrell, they have an impact. My point is that this factor is overblown= and is not put in context of the many other factors that are truly reducin= g bird populations in the temperate region: climate change land use (e.g. short rotation forestry) pesticides oil? Cats, cars, windturbines, reflective glass would be minor in comparison and= I'd suggest we first focus on the major causes of decline and then look at= tempering the minor threats which we are not going to fully eliminate as t= hey are part of our life style: 1. Cat--keep cat in at night, fix feral cats and get them places 2. Car--slow down..I killed a swallow last year when in what I thought was = a hurry 3. Windturbines--research placement of windmills out of flight pathways 4, Glass--hard to know how to reduce bird impacts on existing windows, this= national geographic article discusses some ways http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/11/141113-bird-safe-glass-win= dow-collision-animals-science/ We won't get anywhere legislating that cats be not allowed out but increasi= ng attention on barn populations and making people responsible (or finding = funding for) for fixing barn cats on their property, then suggesting that o= wners keep their cats in at dusk and night, will have impacts. Currently, t= his negative focus on cats creates the impression that a biodiversity crisi= s is the fault of cats not their humans who may also drive cars profligatel= y and eat crops grown using neonicotinoids. Nick On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 11:43 AM, <darrell@abolitphotos.ca> wrote: I disagree Nick, any animal can become a pest and cats and their irresponsi= ble owners are exactly that. Myself, living in the countryside where cats a= re brought to barns and dropped off and many owners letting them roam free,= I have seen many birds killed. Seen one cat jump up on a cloths line to ki= ll a saw-whet owl. An impressive predator but way too many (all) at loose i= n the daytime and night. Dog owners are not allowed to let their animals/pr= edators roam free and neither should cat owners. No pet should be allowed t= o roam free to kill at will, period. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:24:43 -0400, Don MacNeill <donmacneill@bellaliant.ne= t> wrote: I agree Nick. Don Don MacNeill donmacneill@bellaliant.net On 24/01/2016 10:37 AM, Nicholas Hill wrote: Grayson and Calver (2004, Regulation of cat ownership to protect urban wild= life: a justification based on the precautionary approach. Royal Zoological= Society NSW 169-178) found previously that Cat Density was not a predicto= r of passerine numbers but that distance to bushland and the density of urb= an housing were (both negative factors). In the study cited above (regulat= ion of cat ownership etc), they conclude that "cat welfare is the key issue= in a precautionary approach for protection which respects interests of cat= owners". Cat welfare means keeping the beasts in at night and desexing the= m so that we do not have a feral cat problem. In the country here, people l= et cats breed in outbuildings and this leads to a desperate situation for t= hese cats and for wildlife. Other authors warned that conclusions drawn in Britain over the impact of c= ats (million birds and small mammals killed) were drawn from data on one si= ngle village study in Felmersham. This author (BM Fitzgerald, 1990. is cat = control needed to protect wildlife? Environmental Conservation 17: 168-169)= questioned the extrapolation which we should in a rural area like NS where= birdlife is spread widely over woodland and clearings We have 3 desexed rescue cats that are in at night and well fed. There is a= local impact on mouse, vole and shrew (no birds seen taken yet) but the po= pulation of these animals is greatly increased by the landuse round the hou= se..as was observed in Felmersham (rodents and house sparrows there). Surely all of the following factors need to be considered before we relegat= e the cat to the indoors: woodland edges..plant more trees brush piles..dont be tidy, a pile of woody debris is a refuge for small bir= ds and voles sustainable agriculture..minimize use of pesticide sprays (see the " Declin= es in insectivorous birds associated w hi levels of neonicotinoid" in Natur= e 511: 341-3 (2014) and http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/07/1= 40709-birds-insects-pesticides-insecticides-neonicotinoids-silent-spring/) Cats connect people to nature, to animals that still have independence and = aloofness and are not wholly removed from primary adaptations. This makes t= hem attractive in connecting and grounding us but it also i