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YmVjYXVz Hi Steve & All, If you are satisfied that anyone could graze livestock on the Commons then the rest will fall into place if you examine woody vegetation in the vicinity of a pasture. Cattle and Horses will in time clean anything alive within a neck-length of the fence; especially Maple, Cherries and Glossy Buckthorn but also Hawthorn and Alder. I don't recall but I suppose they eat willow only if they have a headache. Yt, Dave W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Shaw" <srshaw@Dal.Ca> To: <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 2:17 AM Subject: RE: [NatureNS] Red Herring & Forestry > Hi Dave, Nick, > Looked up H L Edlin's book which appears to have been re-issued in 2009, > not, apparently, as a 2nd edition but as the original from 1956 (see > publisher's blurb from 2009, copied below); it is now out of stock, 2 used > copies on Amazon for $92 each, 1956 edition. He has published other > forestry-type books, the last I could find in 1973. > > I don't know if serious opinion on this charcoal-deforesting business has > moved forward (or backwards) in the intervening 60 years, a long time in > most fields. Edlin may have had some early academic training (Edinburgh, > Oxford? -- it may say something more in the preface to Dave's own > edition), but it appears he was originally a forrester employed most > recently in editing publications for the UK Forestry Commission, and must > have assembled his considerable historical knowledge that way, or 'on the > side' -- nothing wrong with that if it's rigorously done and if not biased > by his job description. It would just have been nice to have a more > recent perspective, though, or critical reviews from the 1950s, to > corroborate his views. Perhaps modern textbooks used in academic Forestry > or even Biology programs would have material on this topic, but I don't > have such books and was waiting for someone else to chip in and tell me > something, rather than to have to hoof over to unfamiliar sections of the > library. > > I would guess that the anonymous unreferenced Living Countryside site that > Dave quoted was assembled from Edlin's account, as agreeable to them, and > that's why the two agreed, so it cannot be taken as independent > confirmation of Edlin's historical account. > > Dave, you are right about the very early use of charcoal, in early blast > furnaces originally for reducing other metals, and eventually iron. > Charcoal is better than the much later discovered coke in that with > bellows it can get much hotter than coke and also produces purer iron > ingots, but as Nick says, it is a more expensive procedure. Also its > compression resistance is much weaker so it cannot support nearly as much > weight above it as can coke, which therefore allowed development of much > bigger, more efficient blast furnaces with greater throughput. Several > useful entries on Wikipedia push charcoal smelting back to at least > Neolithic times, I think it was (short term memory banks depleted). > > I'd not heard of Nick's George Monbiot and sheep-wrecking, but his Wiki > bio is a really wothwhile short story, revealing a wild, erratic > character -- recommended reading. > Steve > --------------------- > Publicity taken from the Harper Collins, obtained via Google ('a savage > with a stone axe' -- undoubtedly one of my ancestors -- is a nice touch): > > Collins New Naturalist Library > Trees, Woods and Man > by H. L. Edlin > On Sale: 14/07/2009 > Format: Hardcover > This title is currently out of stock > About the Book > A fascinating description of the changing fortunes of our forests, marked > by an attempt to look at woodlands from the special point of view of the > men of each succeeding age. This edition is exclusive to > newnaturalists.com > Ever since the first New Naturalist book was published the Editors have > planned to devote a volume to British trees and woodlands. Mr. Edlin's > book at last fills this gap in the series, and fills it with charm and > authority. Every page bears witness to first-hand experience of what he is > describing. After training at Edinburgh and Oxford, followed by a > period as a rubber-planter in Malaya, Mr. Edlin had charge of felling and > replanting in the New Forest - work which has given him an exceptional > insight not only into the reasons for the disappearance in the past of so > much of our natural woodlands, but also into the re-establishment of > forests by modern methods. Since the war, Mr. Edlin has been engaged in > editing technical publications for the Forestry Commission, and, > naturally, he deals with recent controversies over the planting policy of > the Commission. But Mr. Edlin's book is by no means confined to problems > of afforestation and the supply of timber. He deals in detail with all our > important trees and shrubs, both native and introduced, against the > background of their natural environment; and also has much to say about > their uses and about the woodland crafts - many of them dying out - that > have been handed down from the past. A particular feature of this book > is Mr Edlin's fine account of the past history of British Woodlands, from > the close of the Ice Age to the present day. His fascinating description > of the changing fortunes of our forests is marked by an attempt to look at > woodlands from the special point of view of the men of each succeeding > age, as influenced by their 'social' environment and available equipment. > He points out, for example, that the early settlers cleared the best &g