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Index of Subjects This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1E07_01D14552.9C42BFB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again Nick & All, Jan 2, 2016 Your Beech story has the ring of truth because, until coke came = along and moved most iron works to be near coal mines, the iron industry = in the South East was still expanding full tilt.=20 I had not encountered the term 'sheep wrecked' before; amusing = expression but so true it is sad.=20 I am unsure when this applied but for some considerable time one = could not cut live trees on the commons, in England at least. But anyone = could take dead wood, gathering it "by hook or by crook". And, so I = understand, anyone could pasture livestock on the commons, leading to = "forests" with one tree is a vast otherwise treeless expanse. It has = been general experience throughout the world and for all time that land = held in common will eventually be land degraded. There is every = incentive to take while one can and no incentive to invest in the = future.=20 Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Nicholas Hill=20 To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20 Sent: Friday, January 01, 2016 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Red Herring & Forestry Thanks David But I question the logic of the last Para.=20 In my county Devon, we have some good stands of beech. The story was = that these were planted for charcoal but since the technology changed w = coal coke replacing charcoal, the beech were left and are now = substantial.=20 Needs study but it opens up assumptions which is good. In this same county we have Woodbury Common where tradional cutting of = trees perhaps grazing and the cutting of furze (gorse) led to the = romantic moorland that is probably product of continual nutrient removal = and not a native system in this place. Monbiot as you know has some hard = words for the sheep in the lake district and in scotland which prevents = the reinstatement of Caledonian forest (sheep wrecked) Nick=20 On Jan 1, 2016 8:04 PM, "David & Alison Webster" <dwebster@glinx.com> = wrote: Hi Nick & All, Jan 1, 2016 The idea that---"England....was charcoaling most of its = forests." for the reduction of iron and the use of coke prevented = widespread deforestation is a widespread myth but is at variance with = the facts.=20 The large ironworks which developed for volume production, e.g. = casting of large cannon were not at all portable so they had to rely on = nearby forests and take care to not deplete them, as outlined below From: http://www.ukagriculture.com/countryside/charcoal_history.cfm "Although historians have often considered that the excessive = felling of timber to fuel the iron industries resulted in woodland loss, = it is now recognised that this theory is wholly incorrect. The iron = industry was long term in nature and iron works jealously guarded their = supplies. Furthermore, most of the timber used in the charcoal kiln was = of coppice origin. Coppice material was of regular size, was easy to = handle and load and required minimal recutting. Woods close to the iron = works survived because their place as fuel providers to the iron = industry raised their economic importance and prevented their loss to = agriculture as happened elsewhere." The above is in substantial agreement with information from = Edlin which I posted a while ago; it being-- As covered in some detail in Trees, Woods and Man, H.L.Edlin, = 1956, 272=20 pp. most deforestation was a gradual consequence of other practices = such as=20 mowing natural hay or bedding in relatively open woodland and the = teeth of=20 domesticated animals which killed any regeneration. Without = regeneration the=20 forest gradually died out. This information is scattered & I will = not=20 attempt to dig it out. But can quote from the passage which relates to charcoal (p. 88) = "Vast=20 quantities of wood were consumed for charcoal. to "reduce" the iron = ores to=20 metal before the use of coke was understood (Straker, 1931). But it = was cut=20 from coppices of broadleaved trees, which sent up fresh shoots from = their=20 stumps within a year of being felled; and these coppices were = managed by men=20 who knew the elements of rotational cutting. So today in the very = region=20 where devastation might otherwise have been greatest, we find the = only large=20 portion of England with an outstandingly high proportion of = woodland; in the=20 five south-eastern counties of Kent, Surrey, Sussex, Berkshire, and=20 Hampshire 14.6 per cent of the land as against 5.8 per cent for = England as a=20 whole." Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Nicholas Hill=20 To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Red Herring & Forestry A friend recently accused me of being "gnomic", and ill-educated = lout as i am, i took issue at being called a gnome, but moving into this = here case at hand, I think the gnomes have it: "And warning that use of = biomass is not green is perhaps already an effective way to indirectly = kill trees." Not exactly gnomic but not entirely designed for clarity = and explicitness. Then we have: "And if not now, then without doubt in = the future." This non sentence leaves us without a doubt in the future = waiting with and like Godot for some Christmas clarety.=20 Seriously, I see Dave's point and Jamie's. England found a way = through Edward Darby to stop using beech trees for coking to make steel; = Darby figured out how to substitute coal for wood and thank god because = England had run out of most decent sized trees and was charcoaling most = of its forests. David is right that the first quotation is an = overstatement but Jamie's point was most welcome in today's Herald. We = not only are running the risk of losing good forest but we are running = down our forest soils so that tree regrowth is poor, forest composition = is weedy, wildlife suffers, and the carbon balance (ie. that less carbon = dioxid