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--Apple-Mail=_CC7F8370-4B41-49F4-93FE-50F539A0EF4E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 THANKS, KIRK, from Jim in Wolfville Begin forwarded message: > From: Kirk Hillier <kirk.hillier@acadiau.ca> > Subject: Re: complexity of mimicry examples -- was Batesian Mimic - = got me > Date: September 22, 2014 at 8:47:48 PM ADT > To: Jim Wolford <jimwolford@eastlink.ca>, naturens = <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca> > Cc: Todd Smith <todd.smith@acadiau.ca> >=20 > My understanding is that all milkweed species will produce the cardiac = glycosides which make them (and subsequently monarchs) distasteful or = even toxic. The amount produced by each species is undoubtedly = variable. It is worth noting that monarchs will feed on a Physocarpus = (=92nine bark=92) species as well =96 I'd wager they're less toxic/non = toxic under those circumstances. The queen butterflies also sequester = similar compounds from their food plants. >=20 > Lots of interesting work done on both systems =96 Tom Eisner (the = modern father of chemical ecology) looked at a huge range of mimics, and = chemical defences from the point of view of spider and bird predation =96 = his book, 'For Love of Insects" documents many of these studies. > Cheers, > Kirk >=20 >=20 >=20 > From: "jimwolford@eastlink.ca" <jimwolford@eastlink.ca> > Date: Monday, 22 September, 2014 4:21 PM > To: naturens <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>, Kirk Hillier = <kirk.hillier@acadiau.ca> > Cc: Todd Smith <todd.smith@acadiau.ca>, "jimwolford@eastlink.ca" = <jimwolford@eastlink.ca> > Subject: complexity of mimicry examples -- was Batesian Mimic - got me >=20 > Thanks to Randy and Phil for raising this very interesting topic plus = Randy=92s unusual example of the carrion beetle acting and looking like = a bumble bee. While I have no literature citations like Phil=92s, my = reading about monarchs (a Queen cousin) and viceroys has indicated that = this supposedly simple example is anything but. Apparently there are = large regional variations in distastefulness, which is probably partly = genetic and partly based on the different species and varieties of = food-plants of the two species of butterflies as caterpillars. There = are quite a few kinds of milkweeds and butterflyweeds in the genus = Asclepias. Thus if monarchs feed on non-toxic kinds, they will be very = poor models from the Batesian point of view. I also read somewhere that = our two most common milkweeds in Nova Scotia, namely common milkweed and = swamp milkweed, contain very little toxicity. I have also read that the = supposedly tasty viceroy has degrees of toxicity, as we read in the 1991 = paper cited by Phil. I have been teaching for a long time that very = bright colors in nature should be suspected of advertising some form of = distastefulness or worse, but obviously it ain=92t necessarily so! >=20 > Can anyone out there provide any details on this for the viceroy & = monarch example? >=20 > Cheers from Jim in Wolfville. >=20 > Begin forwarded message: >=20 >> From: Phil Schappert <philjs@eastlink.ca> >> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Batesian Mimic - got me >> Date: September 22, 2014 at 2:59:56 PM ADT >> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca >> Reply-To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca >>=20 >> At 12:48 PM -0300 9/22/14, Randy Lauff wrote: >>> Likely, you've heard of the mimicry between the illness inducing = Monarch and the perfectly edible Viceroy. This is an example of Batesian = mimicry, where the mimic is not harmful, but benefits from looking like = it is. >>=20 >> Often, all is not as it seems at the best of times, Randy, especially = with the Viceroy mimicry system. See, for example, David Ritland's paper = (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00328409) on the = unpalatability of the mimetic Viceroy in comparison to its purported = model, the Queen, in Florida. >>=20 >> Phil >>=20 >> --=20 >>=20 >> Phil Schappert, PhD >>=20 >> 27 Clovis Ave. >> Halifax, NS, B3P 1J3 >> 902-460-8343 (cell) >>=20 >> philschappert.ca >> imaginaturestudio.ca >> imaginaturestudio.blogspot.ca >> philschappert.com >>=20 >> "Just let imagination lead, reality will follow through..." >> (Michael Hedges) >=20 --Apple-Mail=_CC7F8370-4B41-49F4-93FE-50F539A0EF4E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space;">THANKS, KIRK, from Jim in = Wolfville<br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, = 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span = style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';">Kirk Hillier <<a = href=3D"mailto:kirk.hillier@acadiau.ca">kirk.hillier@acadiau.ca</a>><br= ></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span = style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Subject: = </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';"><b>Re: complexity of = mimicry examples -- was Batesian Mimic - got me</b><br></span></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, = 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Date: </b></span><span = style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';">September 22, 2014 at 8:47:48 PM = ADT<br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span = style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>To: = </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';">Jim Wolford <<a = href=3D"mailto:jimwolford@eastlink.ca">jimwolford@eastlink.ca</a>>, = naturens <<a = href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a>><br= ></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span = style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Cc: = </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';">Todd Smith <<a = href=3D"mailto:todd.smith@acadiau.ca">todd.smith@acadiau.ca</a>><br></s= pan></div><br><div>