[NatureNS] complexity of mimicry examples -- was Batesian Mimic - got me

From: Jim Wolford <jimwolford@eastlink.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:21:41 -0300
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Cc: Todd Smith <todd.smith@acadiau.ca>,
To: naturens <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>,
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Thanks to Randy and Phil for raising this very interesting topic plus =
Randy=92s unusual example of the carrion beetle acting and looking like =
a bumble bee.  While I have no literature citations like Phil=92s, my =
reading about monarchs (a Queen cousin) and viceroys has indicated that =
this supposedly simple example is anything but.  Apparently there are =
large regional variations in distastefulness, which is probably partly =
genetic and partly based on the different species and varieties of =
food-plants of the two species of butterflies as caterpillars.  There =
are quite a few kinds of milkweeds and butterflyweeds in the genus =
Asclepias.  Thus if monarchs feed on non-toxic kinds, they will be very =
poor models from the Batesian point of view.  I also read somewhere that =
our two most common milkweeds in Nova Scotia, namely common milkweed and =
swamp milkweed, contain very little toxicity.  I have also read that the =
supposedly tasty viceroy has degrees of toxicity, as we read in the 1991 =
paper cited by Phil.  I have been teaching for a long time that very =
bright colors in nature should be suspected of advertising some form of =
distastefulness or worse, but obviously it ain=92t necessarily so!

Can anyone out there provide any details on this for the viceroy & =
monarch example?

Cheers from Jim in Wolfville.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Phil Schappert <philjs@eastlink.ca>
> Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Batesian Mimic - got me
> Date: September 22, 2014 at 2:59:56 PM ADT
> To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
> Reply-To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
>=20
> At 12:48 PM -0300 9/22/14, Randy Lauff wrote:
>> Likely, you've heard of the mimicry between the illness inducing =
Monarch and the perfectly edible Viceroy. This is an example of Batesian =
mimicry, where the mimic is not harmful, but benefits from looking like =
it is.
>=20
> Often, all is not as it seems at the best of times, Randy, especially =
with the Viceroy mimicry system. See, for example, David Ritland's paper =
(http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00328409) on the =
unpalatability of the mimetic Viceroy in comparison to its purported =
model, the Queen, in Florida.
>=20
> Phil
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> Phil Schappert, PhD
>=20
> 27 Clovis Ave.
> Halifax, NS, B3P 1J3
> 902-460-8343 (cell)
>=20
> philschappert.ca
> imaginaturestudio.ca
> imaginaturestudio.blogspot.ca
> philschappert.com
>=20
> "Just let imagination lead, reality will follow through..."
>                                       (Michael Hedges)


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Thanks =
to Randy and Phil for raising this very interesting topic plus Randy=92s =
unusual example of the carrion beetle acting and looking like a bumble =
bee. &nbsp;While I have no literature citations like Phil=92s, my =
reading about monarchs (a Queen cousin) and viceroys has indicated that =
this supposedly simple example is anything but. &nbsp;Apparently there =
are large regional variations in distastefulness, which is probably =
partly genetic and partly based on the different species and varieties =
of food-plants of the two species of butterflies as caterpillars. =
&nbsp;There are quite a few kinds of milkweeds and butterflyweeds in the =
genus Asclepias. &nbsp;Thus if monarchs feed on non-toxic kinds, they =
will be very poor models from the Batesian point of view. &nbsp;I also =
read somewhere that our two most common milkweeds in Nova Scotia, namely =
common milkweed and swamp milkweed, contain very little toxicity. =
&nbsp;I have also read that the supposedly tasty viceroy has degrees of =
toxicity, as we read in the 1991 paper cited by Phil. &nbsp;I have been =
teaching for a long time that very bright colors in nature should be =
suspected of advertising some form of distastefulness or worse, but =
obviously it ain=92t necessarily so!<div><br></div><div>Can anyone out =
there provide any details on this for the viceroy &amp; monarch =
example?<br><div><br></div><div>Cheers from Jim in =
Wolfville.<br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, =
0, 0, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';">Phil Schappert &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:philjs@eastlink.ca">philjs@eastlink.ca</a>&gt;<br></span></=
div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';"><b>Re: [NatureNS] Batesian Mimic - =
got me</b><br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>Date: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';">September 22, 2014 =
at 2:59:56 PM ADT<br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"><b>To: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';"><a =
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a><br></s=
pan></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, =
1.0);"><b>Reply-To: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica';"><a=
 =
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</a><br></s=
pan></div><br><div>At 12:48 PM -0300 9/22/14, Randy Lauff =
wrote:<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Likely, you've heard of the mimicry =
between the illness inducing Monarch and the perfectly edible Viceroy. =
This is an example of Batesian mimicry, where the mimic is not harmful, =
but benefits from looking like it is.<br></blockquote><br>Often, all is =
not as it seems at the best of times, Randy, especially with the Viceroy =
mimicry system. See, for example, David Ritland's paper (<a =
href=3D"http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00328409">http://link=
.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00328409</a>) on the unpalatability of =
the mimetic Viceroy in comparison to its purported model, the Queen, in =
Florida.<br><br>Phil<br><br>-- <br><br>Phil Schappert, PhD<br><br>27 =
Clovis Ave.<br>Halifax, NS, B3P 1J3<br>902-460-8343 (cell)<br><br><a =
href=3D"http://philschappert.ca">philschappert.ca</a><br>imaginaturestudio=
.ca<br>imaginaturestudio.blogspot.ca<br>philschappert.com<br><br>"Just =
let imagination lead, reality will follow through..."<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;(Michael =
Hedges)<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>=

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