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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_326B_01CF9497.673C2080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi John, Andrew & All, =20 I noticed on a post to naturens recently that (from the NS Museum of = NH site)-- "It may seem harmless to keep a turtle as a pet for a while, but this is = not a good idea. Two of the province's four turtle species are already = at risk in Nova Scotia. It is likely that removal of turtles by people = is part of the reason, for Wood Turtles." I expect this supposition rests in part on your 1984 statement = (Amphibians and Reptiles of Nova Scotia p. 148) that-- "Another problem facing the Wood Turtle is the removal of many = individuals from their habitat by people while on fishing trips or = camping trips" which are then subsequently "released in the woods many = kilometers from its natural habitat." Perhaps you can provide some details of the observations on which = your above statement was based.=20 To get a third viewpoint for comparison I went to Wood Turtle on = Wikipedia and with some personal satisfaction note that much of their = text, re Wood Turtles range wide, might have been written by me re = turtles and amphibians in NS; e.g. emphasis on habitat loss, traffic = fatalities, a plug for culvert underpasses and the observation that an = overabundant Raccoon threatens WTs at all life stages. They quite = rightly list commercial collections made for the international pet trade = as a genuine threat. They note without commentary that "Brochures and = other media that warn people to avoid keeping the wood turtle as a pet = are currently being distributed."; a variant of damming by faint praise. With respect to culvert underpasses I paste the following-- START OF PASTE\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Hi Lisa & All, July 31, 2008 I dare say you are already moving in this direction, but a small=20 animal underpass, suitably located (e.g. where you were escorting=20 toadlets in this instance) would be less labour-intensive and=20 consequently more practicable in the long run. Why Conservation organizations have not lobbied for and made public=20 noises about small animal crossings beats me. Perhaps I have not been=20 paying attention but I have noticed that some have been installed in the = UK. Even modest highways with light traffic can be effective barriers to = movement of Reptiles and Amphibians, either by preventing access to the=20 roadway or by killing some that do make it. Based on road kills observed while walking, I think snakes must sun=20 on gravel roads where they blend in nicely before and after being=20 flattened. And a 20-cm high ridge of gravel, thrown up by a road grader, = can stop a 30-cm snake from crossing. And a highway sand cut, at angle=20 of repose after about 25 years, acts as a solid wall to a toad (in dry=20 weather; wet might be different). Yours truly, Dave Webster, Kentville END OF PASTE\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ And just one more example-- START OF PASTE\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Hi Flora & All, Apr 3, 2006 Traffic on our highways is unfortunately a very effective way to = kill small animals; invertebrate & vertebrate. I dug out two responses = to this spring rush (pasted below) and am struck by the agreement in = timing. As noted in my post of Sept 17, 2005, underpasses can be very = effective at least for snakes. Thanks for the opportunity to flog a pet idea. DW Flora Cordis Johnson wrote: Last night's rain, though undoubtedly needed, brought the first = amphibian roadkills of spring to my neck of the woods, and a lot of = them. In a 3/4 mile stretch of road that runs through a wetland east of = my house on Cloverdale Road, near Middle Stewiacke, I counted three dead = spring peepers, ranging in size from about a half inch to about an inch = in length, and a large (about 2 inch) dark-charcoal coloured salamander = with faint blue markings on its sides. In addition there were several = unidentifiable splats -- which, judging from size and weather, were most = likely ex-frogs. I brought the salamander home in a dead leaf and = photographed it. A sad Wild Flora in Birch Hill START OF PASTES\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Hi Anne & All, Mar 31, 2002 I recall hearing some years ago that toad (or frog ?) underpasses = had been installed on some British highways, really culverts at ditch = level, and had substantially reduced road kills. I wonder if these salamanders would preferentially use a culvert if = it were available and how large it would need to be ? Dave Webster, Kentville \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Hi James & All, Mar 31, 2005 A lot of amphibians and reptiles don't get to the other side when=20 they attempt to cross a road. I continue to wonder why Naturalist organizations don't pressure=20 more for safe R&A underpass crossings. Is this a design problem or a=20 motivation problem ? Yours truly, Dave Webster, Kentville END OF PASTES; really \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ I don't like putting you and Andrew on the spot but remember "Iron = sharpeneth iron", Prov. 27:17, I don't think the numbers add up and in = my view, backed by Wikipedia as it happens (noted above), there are = greater environmental problems that collectively shrink the odd turtle = picked up on a fishing or camping trip to a value that is = indistinguishable from zero.=20 According to Wikipedia, Wood Turtles live to 40 years in the wild = (58 in captivity), become sexually mature at ages 14-18 and lay 3-20 = eggs per year. For simple mental arithmetic one can round this to 20 = egg-laying years and 10 eggs per year for a total of 200 eggs per = female. So attrition must be severe to maintain a stable population and = the range in egg production implies a control mechanism to avoid = damaging intraspecific competition. Males contest for the opportunity to mate so taking a male home = would have no impact (apart from the positive one of decreasing demand = on resources) and unless the population were really sparse the removal = of a female would be soon offset by greater egg production as resources = per adult increased. On the other hand I have found no mention in your text for any = species of the much greater threats of habitat destruction, road = traffic and habitat fragmentation by highway embankments. Effective = protection can be implemented only if the major threats are recognized.=20 And pushing the delusion that all will be fine if people just stop = taking turtles home and releasing them far from the turtle's home, while = downplaying or ignoring the much greater threats is in my view a good = way to condemn the Wood Turtle to ultimate extirpation. That is more than enough serious text for one communication so I = will turn briefly to matters that are more fun. In the plots of Eastern Painted Turtle (EP) and Wood Turtle (WT) = distribution it is interesting (to me) that one distribution is almost = entirely in the negative space of the other. Of 24 WT and 31 EP stations = only 4 appear