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Hi Dave P & All, Apr 20, 2014
What pH is critical for amphibian eggs ? Even 60 years ago fresh =
water south of the Digby/Canso line was quite acidic.=20
Solubility of limestone in water decreases rapidly with increase in =
pH (drawing on faint memory, a 100 fold decrease in solubility for each =
unit increase in pH). To be effective one would likely need more than =
half passing 60 mesh. Even in an ephemeral pool there will be some =
movement of water and/or dilution of less acidic pool water by rain.
Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David Patriquin=20
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 9:11 PM
Subject: [NatureNS] transfer wood frog eggs?- and a little lime
Unfortunately, many of our vernal ponds in SW Nova Scotia are now too =
acidic for amphibian eggs, so perhaps we should be throwing a piece of =
limestone in at the same time.=20
In a 1999 essay "Pickled Eggs and Frogs' Legs", John Brownlie noted =
the negative effects of acid rain on amphibians in SW Nova Scotia, and =
that adults will keep laying eggs even in waters that are acid enough to =
pickle the eggs. He was hopeful that acidification would be reversed by =
2020, by which time the adults would have passed on but then "there will =
still be people like me around who love frogs and salamanders; who like =
to hear them singing in the spring and who observe their mating rituals =
in breeding ponds. These people will re-introduce amphibians to ponds =
and lakes from which they have disappeared."
As now well documented, SW Nova Scotia is NOT seeing the reversal in =
acidification accruing from emission controls seen in other regions =
because our soils/rocks have some of the lowest weathering rates (and =
hence lowest capacity to replace calcium and other basic cations) =
amongst soils of Europe and eastern North America, a situation that is =
only worsened by clearcutting. =20
So my thought is that we should be both transferring eggs and throwing =
a piece of limestone into these ponds to keep the populations going for =
a future age. A good research project for sure, but in the absence of =
that under the present regimes, perhaps some guerilla action to save our =
amphibians? =20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
a.. Donna Crossland=20
b.. Today at 10:49 AM
To
a.. naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
Hello Fred: What do you think of possibly transferring some to those
otherwise "doomed" wood frog egg masses to the more traditional ponds
located nearby, where wood frogs are traditionally known to frequent? =
I
know that we humans have a tendency to "play God" with wildlife, but =
this
would seem like a fairly innocuous thing to do with perhaps very =
positive
outcomes. With many wetland sites already dealing with external =
stressors
caused directly/indirectly by humans, is it possible that we could =
help out
a little here (if so inclined)?
This question may be more philosophical than natural history-based.
Donna Crossland
-----Original Message-----
From: naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca =
[mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca]
On Behalf Of Fred Schueler
Sent: April-20-14 8:50 AM
To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
Cc: Owen Clarkin; Phil Chadwick
Subject: Re: [NatureNS] wood frog eggs
Quoting nancy dowd <nancypdowd@gmail.com>:
> On the Big Lots Rd, Northwest, Lun Co, there was a steady quacking =
of=20
> Wood Frogs late yesterday afternoon. Their dark egg masses were=20
> everywhere along the dirt road- in ditches, large and small =
puddles=20
> and even in shallow tire ruts. The latter two locations are quite a =
> gamble unless we continue to have wet weather. Or is it possible for =
> Wood Frog eggs to tolerate some degree of drying out?
* no, they just lay in the "best available site" as judged by them at =
the
time (they're never more than 10cm above the ground). This spring =
we've got
a chorus here that usually breeds in a nice Red Maple swamp, but this =
year,
with an unusual thawing process, they're calling from a flooded area =
in a
harvested Soybean field, which will almost certainly dry up long =
before the
tadpoles are ready to transform.
We call what you describe "rut breeding" and in Ontario it seems to be
characteristic of El Nino springs, which seem to have early warm =
spells
without much rain, so that little rut-like waterbodies are thawed =
before the
breeding ponds.
see - http://fragileinheritance.org/documents/RESULTS_Cochrane.pdf - =
"In
1983, the first El Nino spring that we were aware of as such, cold and
warmth alternated so abruptly that eggs were laid in flooded tire ruts =
all
across Ontario, from the Niagara Peninsula to our study site at Long =
Lake,
south of Cochrane (48.91606N 80.97202W; see Weaving a fabric of sound, =
FWS,
2001. Trail and Landscape 35(1):8-11). Again in the El Nino spring of =
2002,
on the James Bay Expedition, we found that 'Most auditory records from =
14-16
May around Cochrane, and at Moosonee, were index 3 choruses, but these =
were
not actively breeding congresses, as the choruses could not be =
approached,
and no concentrations of egg masses were laid at those chorus sites =
that
could be visited during daylight. Scattered egg masses were laid in =
the ruts
along the track at Long Lake.'
"In 2010, temperatures in the first days of April reached 27=B0C =
around
Cochrane, well before lakes, or ponds the size of those where Wood =
Frogs
breed, were thawed. We presume that this led the frogs to move =
overland and
lay eggs in tiny bodies of water such as tire ruts. =20
Subsequent cold temperatures froze these eggs, which were in a =
granular
tapioca-like condition, bright green with colonizing algae, when we =
surveyed
them. Crystal marks on the bottoms of puddles in the road at Long Lake
suggested that small waterbodies had frozen to a depth of 10cm. A few
eggmasses, that presumably had been laid subsequently, had hatched, or
developed towards hatching, though without a sufficient volume of =
water in
the ruts there couldn't be much expectation that they'd persist =
through the
summer to transformation.
fred.
------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad Bishops Mills Natural
History Centre - http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm Mudpuppy Night in Oxford =
Mills
- http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm Daily Paintings -
http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/
South Nation Basin Art & Science Book
http://pinicola.ca/books/SNR_book.htm
RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
(613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca/
------------------------------------------------------------=20
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4569 / Virus Database: 3882/7368 - Release Date: =
04/19/14
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<DIV>Hi Dave P & All, =20
=
=20
Apr 20, =
2014</DIV>
<DIV> What pH is critical for amphibian eggs ? Even 60 =
years=20
ago fresh water south of the Digby/Canso line was quite acidic. </DIV>
<DIV> Solubility of limestone in water decreases =
rapidly with=20
increase in pH (drawing on faint memory, a 100 fold decrease in=20
solubility for each unit increase in pH). To be effective one would =
likely=20
need more than half passing 60 mesh. Even in an ephemeral pool there =
will be=20
some movement of water and/or dilution of less acidic pool water by =
rain.</DIV>
<DIV>Yt, Dave Webster, Kentville</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DDavid.Patriquin@Dal.Ca =
href=3D"mailto:David.Patriquin@Dal.Ca">David=20
Patriquin</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dnaturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 20, 2014 =
9:11=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NatureNS] transfer =
wood frog=20
eggs?- and a little lime</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<P class=3DMsoNormal>Unfortunately, many of our vernal ponds in SW =
Nova Scotia=20
are now too acidic for amphibian eggs, so perhaps we should be =
throwing a=20
piece of limestone in at the same time. </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>In a 1999 essay "Pickled Eggs and Frogs' Legs", =
John=20
Brownlie noted the negative effects of acid rain on amphibians in SW =
Nova=20
Scotia, and that adults will keep laying eggs even in waters that are =
acid=20
enough to pickle the eggs. He was hopeful that acidification would be =
reversed=20
by 2020, by which time the adults would have passed on but then "there =
will=20
still be people like me around who love frogs and salamanders; who =
like to=20
hear them singing in the spring and who observe their mating rituals =
in=20
breeding ponds. These people will re-introduce amphibians to ponds and =
lakes=20
from which they have disappeared."</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>As now well documented, SW Nova Scotia is NOT =
seeing the=20
reversal in acidification accruing from emission controls seen in =
other=20
regions because our soils/rocks have some of the lowest weathering =
rates (and=20
hence lowest capacity to replace calcium and other basic cations) =
amongst=20
soils of Europe and eastern North America, a situation that is=20
only worsened by clearcutting. <SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>So my thought is that we should be both =
transferring eggs=20
and throwing a piece of limestone into these ponds to keep the =
populations=20
going for a future age. A good research project for sure, but in the =
absence=20
of that under the present regimes, perhaps some guerilla action to =
save our=20
amphibians?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></P>
<P><BR><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times'; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"></SPAN></P>
<DIV class=3Dpage title=3D"Page 5">
<DIV class=3DlayoutArea>
<DIV class=3Dcolumn></DIV></DIV></DIV>
=
<P>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&g=
t;>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=
;><BR></P>
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steady"=20
title=3D"Previous message [left arrow]"><SPAN=20
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<DIV id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4168 class=3Dbase-card-header>
<DIV id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4167 class=3Dmessage-item-header>
<DIV id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4166 class=3Dcontents>
<DD id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4200 class=3Dhdr-info>
<UL id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4199 class=3Dinline-items>
<LI id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4198><SPAN=20
id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4197 class=3D"base-lozenge =
from-loz"><SPAN=20
id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4196 class=3Dlozenge-static><A=20
id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4195 title=3Ddcrossland@eastlink.ca =
tabIndex=3D0=20
=
href=3D"https://ca-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=3Ddml2ots1jou79#">=
Donna=20
Crossland</A> </SPAN></SPAN>
<LI class=3Dmsg-date title=3D"Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 10:49 =
AM"><SPAN>Today at=20
10:49 <SPAN class=3Dampm>AM</SPAN></SPAN></LI></UL>
<DIV id=3Dmsg_details class=3D"info expanded twolines">
<DL id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4172 class=3Ddetails>
<DT id=3Dhdr-to class=3Dhdr-info>To
<DD id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4171 class=3Dhdr-info>
<UL id=3Dmsg-header-to class=3Dinline-items>
<LI id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4170 class=3DhLozenge><SPAN=20
id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4169 class=3Dlozenge-static=20
title=3D"">naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</SPAN>=20
</LI></UL></DD></DL></DIV></DD></DIV></DIV></DIV>Hello Fred: =
What do you=20
think of possibly transferring some to those<BR clear=3Dnone>otherwise =
"doomed"=20
wood frog egg masses to the more traditional ponds<BR =
clear=3Dnone>located=20
nearby, where wood frogs are traditionally known to frequent? =
I<BR=20
clear=3Dnone>know that we humans have a tendency to "play God" with =
wildlife,=20
but this<BR clear=3Dnone>would seem like a fairly innocuous thing to =
do with=20
perhaps very positive<BR clear=3Dnone>outcomes. With many =
wetland sites=20
already dealing with external stressors<BR clear=3Dnone>caused=20
directly/indirectly by humans, is it possible that we could help =
out<BR=20
clear=3Dnone>a little here (if so inclined)?<BR clear=3Dnone><BR =
clear=3Dnone>This=20
question may be more philosophical than natural history-based.<BR=20
clear=3Dnone><BR clear=3Dnone>Donna Crossland<BR clear=3Dnone><BR=20
clear=3Dnone>-----Original Message-----<BR clear=3Dnone>From: <A=20
id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4201 =
href=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
shape=3Drect>naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca</A> [mailto:<A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
shape=3Drect>naturens-owner@chebucto.ns.ca</A>]<BR clear=3Dnone>On =
Behalf Of Fred=20
Schueler<BR clear=3Dnone>Sent: April-20-14 8:50 AM<BR clear=3Dnone>To: =
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:naturens@chebucto.ns.ca"=20
shape=3Drect>naturens@chebucto.ns.ca</A><BR clear=3Dnone>Cc: Owen =
Clarkin; Phil=20
Chadwick<BR clear=3Dnone>Subject: Re: [NatureNS] wood frog eggs<BR=20
clear=3Dnone><BR clear=3Dnone>Quoting nancy dowd <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:nancypdowd@gmail.com" =
shape=3Drect>nancypdowd@gmail.com</A>>:<BR=20
clear=3Dnone><BR clear=3Dnone>> On the Big Lots Rd, Northwest, Lun =
Co, there=20
was a steady quacking of <BR clear=3Dnone>> Wood Frogs late =
yesterday=20
afternoon. Their dark egg masses were <BR clear=3Dnone>> everywhere =
along=20
the dirt road- in ditches, large and small puddles <BR=20
clear=3Dnone>> and even in shallow tire ruts. The latter two =
locations are=20
quite a <BR clear=3Dnone>> gamble unless we continue to have =
wet=20
weather. Or is it possible for <BR clear=3Dnone>> Wood Frog eggs to =
tolerate=20
some degree of drying out?<BR clear=3Dnone><BR clear=3Dnone>* no, they =
just lay in=20
the "best available site" as judged by them at the<BR =
clear=3Dnone>time (they're=20
never more than 10cm above the ground). This spring we've got<BR =
clear=3Dnone>a=20
chorus here that usually breeds in a nice Red Maple swamp, but this =
year,<BR=20
clear=3Dnone>with an unusual thawing process, they're calling from a =
flooded=20
area in a<BR clear=3Dnone>harvested Soybean field, which will almost =
certainly=20
dry up long before the<BR clear=3Dnone>tadpoles are ready to =
transform.<BR=20
clear=3Dnone><BR clear=3Dnone>We call what you describe "rut breeding" =
and in=20
Ontario it seems to be<BR clear=3Dnone>characteristic of El Nino =
springs, which=20
seem to have early warm spells<BR clear=3Dnone>without much rain, so =
that little=20
rut-like waterbodies are thawed before the<BR clear=3Dnone>breeding =
ponds.<BR=20
clear=3Dnone><BR clear=3Dnone>see - <A =
id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4204=20
href=3D"http://fragileinheritance.org/documents/RESULTS_Cochrane.pdf" =
shape=3Drect=20
=
target=3D_blank>http://fragileinheritance.org/documents/RESULTS_Cochrane.=
pdf=20
</A>- "In<BR clear=3Dnone>1983, the first El Nino spring that we were =
aware of=20
as such, cold and<BR clear=3Dnone>warmth alternated so abruptly that =
eggs were=20
laid in flooded tire ruts all<BR clear=3Dnone>across Ontario, from the =
Niagara=20
Peninsula to our study site at Long Lake,<BR clear=3Dnone>south of =
Cochrane=20
(48.91606N 80.97202W; see Weaving a fabric of sound, FWS,<BR =
clear=3Dnone>2001.=20
Trail and Landscape 35(1):8-11). Again in the El Nino spring of =
2002,<BR=20
clear=3Dnone>on the James Bay Expedition, we found that 'Most auditory =
records=20
from 14-16<BR clear=3Dnone>May around Cochrane, and at Moosonee, were =
index 3=20
choruses, but these were<BR clear=3Dnone>not actively breeding =
congresses, as=20
the choruses could not be approached,<BR clear=3Dnone>and no =
concentrations of=20
egg masses were laid at those chorus sites that<BR clear=3Dnone>could =
be visited=20
during daylight. Scattered egg masses were laid in the ruts<BR=20
clear=3Dnone>along the track at Long Lake.'<BR clear=3Dnone><BR =
clear=3Dnone>"In=20
2010, temperatures in the first days of April reached 27=B0C around<BR =
clear=3Dnone>Cochrane, well before lakes, or ponds the size of those =
where Wood=20
Frogs<BR clear=3Dnone>breed, were thawed. We presume that this led the =
frogs to=20
move overland and<BR clear=3Dnone>lay eggs in tiny bodies of water =
such as tire=20
ruts. <BR clear=3Dnone>Subsequent cold temperatures froze these =
eggs,=20
which were in a granular<BR clear=3Dnone>tapioca-like condition, =
bright green=20
with colonizing algae, when we surveyed<BR clear=3Dnone>them. Crystal =
marks on=20
the bottoms of puddles in the road at Long Lake<BR =
clear=3Dnone>suggested that=20
small waterbodies had frozen to a depth of 10cm. A few<BR=20
clear=3Dnone>eggmasses, that presumably had been laid subsequently, =
had hatched,=20
or<BR clear=3Dnone>developed towards hatching, though without a =
sufficient=20
volume of water in<BR clear=3Dnone>the ruts there couldn't be much =
expectation=20
that they'd persist through the<BR clear=3Dnone>summer to =
transformation.<BR=20
clear=3Dnone><BR clear=3Dnone>fred.<BR=20
=
clear=3Dnone>------------------------------------------------------------=
<BR=20
clear=3Dnone> Frederick W. Schueler =
&=20
Aleta Karstad Bishops Mills Natural<BR clear=3Dnone>History Centre - =
<A=20
id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4205 =
href=3D"http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm"=20
shape=3Drect target=3D_blank>http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm </A>Mudpuppy =
Night in=20
Oxford Mills<BR clear=3Dnone>- <A =
href=3D"http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm"=20
shape=3Drect target=3D_blank>http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm </A>Daily =
Paintings=20
-<BR clear=3Dnone><A id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4206=20
href=3D"http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/" shape=3Drect=20
target=3D_blank>http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/</A><BR=20
clear=3Dnone> South Nation Basin Art =
&=20
Science Book<BR clear=3Dnone> <A=20
id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4207=20
href=3D"http://pinicola.ca/books/SNR_book.htm" shape=3Drect=20
target=3D_blank>http://pinicola.ca/books/SNR_book.htm</A><BR =
clear=3Dnone> =20
RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0<BR =
clear=3Dnone> on the=20
Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W<BR clear=3Dnone> =
=20
(613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> <A =
id=3Dyui_3_13_0_1_1398012795186_4208=20
href=3D"http://pinicola.ca/" shape=3Drect =
target=3D_blank>http://pinicola.ca/</A><BR=20
=
clear=3Dnone>------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
<P><BR></P></DIV></DIV></DIV><A></A>
<P align=3Dleft color=3D"#000000" avgcert??>No virus found in this=20
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A=20
href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2014.0.4569 / =
Virus=20
Database: 3882/7368 - Release Date: =
04/19/14</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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