[NatureNS] re star-thrower story -- moral??

From: "Dusan Soudek" <soudekd@ns.sympatico.ca>
To: <naturens@chebucto.ns.ca>
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Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 17:56:21 -0400
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        While walking along a beach, an elderly gen
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Brian,
   the examples you gave are of similes, not parables or fables. The =
latter two need some sort of a plot, as they are tales. I am still =
contemplating Militaw the Hummingbird, the Star Thrower, and all the =
contributions to the discussion on this topic.... :)
   Dusan Soudek
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Brian Bartlett=20
  To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
  Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [NatureNS] re star-thrower story -- moral??


  Chris, You're right. We go down a dangerous road when we start taking =
parables or fables literally, as we would if we objected to the illogic =
and (in a sense) unreliability in metaphors and similes, which are such =
bedrocks of our thought and speech, including scientific thought and =
speech. "She ran like the wind." "No, she couldn't--the wind doesn't =
run." "He drank like a fish." "How could he? -- fish don't drink." =
"You're as crazy as a loon. "No, I'm not, because loons aren't insane."

  cheers, Brian


  From: Christopher Majka=20
  Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 1:05 AM
  To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20
  Subject: Re: [NatureNS] re star-thrower story -- moral??


  Hi folks,=20


  Both The Star Thrower story and the Militaw story (today I heard from =
someone who had heard the latter story from a Haida Gwaii lady) are =
intended to serve as parables, not scientific treatises. In allegorical =
fashion they make the point that it is worthwhile for each one of us to =
do what we can, to make a contribution. If everyone pitches in, great =
things can be achieved. We shouldn't be dissuaded from action because it =
seems daunting.


  No one imagines that such parables are literally true (talking =
animals, a hummingbird attempting to put out a forest fire). Parables =
are effective because the convey a point that moves people. Better =
examples aren't required because these are fables not literal accounts. =
Even Eisley's original story is not a scientific narrative, but a =
poetical account, in which he writes:


  "On a point of land, I found the star thrower...I spoke once briefly. =
"I understand," I said. "Call me another thrower." Only then I allowed =
myself to think, He is not alone any longer. After us, there will be =
others...We were part of the rainbow...Perhaps far outward on the rim of =
space a genuine star was similarly seized and flung...For a moment, we =
cast on an infinite beach together beside an unknown hurler of suns... =
We had lost our way, I thought, but we had kept, some of us, the memory =
of the perfect circle of compassion from life to death and back to life =
again - the completion of the rainbow of existence."


  Reflect on Tuma's earlier observation: "Some folks can only feed the =
birds.  Some can educate others about the use of lead in bullets and =
sinkers and how this affects the Eagles. Some can help by lobbing =
politicians. Others can donate money or support whatever way they can.  =
Do what you can to help."


  Cheers,


  Chris


  On 13-Jan-12, at 11:27 PM, Brian Bartlett wrote:


    The radically "abridged" version of the Eisley event almost reads =
like an Aesop's fable rather than an account to be taken as =
scientifically grounded, but I can see why Jim is bothered by the idea =
of thoughtlessly and needlessly tossing star-fish around. Maybe the =
First Nations tale retold by Tuma, about the talking hummingbird that =
tried to put out a forest fire, is more helpful here, because it's so =
obviously a symbolic or visionary fantasy and nobody is going to read it =
literally in the way they would a scientific treatise or even a personal =
memoir.
    Brian


    From: David & Alison Webster
    Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 9:37 PM
    To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
    Subject: Re: [NatureNS] re star-thrower story -- moral??


    Hi Jim & All,                        Jan 13, 2012
        I agree Jim, if I understand what you are saying.

         In real life, so far as I know, starfish will not become =
stranded above low-low tide, except perhaps by very unlikely mechanisms; =
a tidal wave which I suppose might sweep them inland, a very severe =
storm that rolled starfish, rock, mussels and byssus threads into a =
bundle among other wrack or an earthquake that abruptly raised a section =
of beach.

        But this discussion has perhaps become too serious. If you =
search for it, you can find a quote to justify any action. For example, =
as explained in a recent issue of National Geographic, one early edition =
of the King James Bible omitted a key word from one of the 10 =
commandments so that it read "Thou shalt commit adultery.". Presumably =
this gave rise to the expression "Praise the Lord".

    Yt DW, Kentville
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: James W. Wolford
      To: NatureNS
      Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 5:59 PM
      Subject: [NatureNS] re star-thrower story -- moral??


      I am having problems with this whole discussion, because of the =
evolutionary adaptations of intertidal organisms like these starfishes =
-- I can visualize like-minded people who see barnacles "stranded" =
during low tides wanting to use backhoes to get them back into the =
water.  I of course love the point that I think Helene is getting at, =
that one or a few who are doing tiny amounts of some activity whose =
effect is very little are setting examples for potential followers to =
act in concert, but let's find a better example?=20


      Cheers from Jim in Wolfville.



      Begin forwarded message:


        From: Helene Van Doninck <helene.birdvet@gmail.com>
        Date: January 13, 2012 4:30:57 PM AST
        To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca
        Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Loren Eiseley
        Reply-To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca


        The starfish story is pretty much my daily mantra, and has been =
for years. I talk about it to people who think I'm crazy for helping =
common species. They all matter, at least to me.
        Helene

        On Jan 13, 2012 2:32 PM, "Brian Bartlett" =
<bbartlett@eastlink.ca> wrote:

          Eiseley was a genius of an essayist, memoirist, and nature =
writer. The Immense Journey, The Night Country, The Unexpected Universe, =
All The Strange Ho