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While walking along a beach, an elderly gen This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01CCD2E5.D3027880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian, the examples you gave are of similes, not parables or fables. The = latter two need some sort of a plot, as they are tales. I am still = contemplating Militaw the Hummingbird, the Star Thrower, and all the = contributions to the discussion on this topic.... :) Dusan Soudek ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Brian Bartlett=20 To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20 Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [NatureNS] re star-thrower story -- moral?? Chris, You're right. We go down a dangerous road when we start taking = parables or fables literally, as we would if we objected to the illogic = and (in a sense) unreliability in metaphors and similes, which are such = bedrocks of our thought and speech, including scientific thought and = speech. "She ran like the wind." "No, she couldn't--the wind doesn't = run." "He drank like a fish." "How could he? -- fish don't drink." = "You're as crazy as a loon. "No, I'm not, because loons aren't insane." cheers, Brian From: Christopher Majka=20 Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 1:05 AM To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca=20 Subject: Re: [NatureNS] re star-thrower story -- moral?? Hi folks,=20 Both The Star Thrower story and the Militaw story (today I heard from = someone who had heard the latter story from a Haida Gwaii lady) are = intended to serve as parables, not scientific treatises. In allegorical = fashion they make the point that it is worthwhile for each one of us to = do what we can, to make a contribution. If everyone pitches in, great = things can be achieved. We shouldn't be dissuaded from action because it = seems daunting. No one imagines that such parables are literally true (talking = animals, a hummingbird attempting to put out a forest fire). Parables = are effective because the convey a point that moves people. Better = examples aren't required because these are fables not literal accounts. = Even Eisley's original story is not a scientific narrative, but a = poetical account, in which he writes: "On a point of land, I found the star thrower...I spoke once briefly. = "I understand," I said. "Call me another thrower." Only then I allowed = myself to think, He is not alone any longer. After us, there will be = others...We were part of the rainbow...Perhaps far outward on the rim of = space a genuine star was similarly seized and flung...For a moment, we = cast on an infinite beach together beside an unknown hurler of suns... = We had lost our way, I thought, but we had kept, some of us, the memory = of the perfect circle of compassion from life to death and back to life = again - the completion of the rainbow of existence." Reflect on Tuma's earlier observation: "Some folks can only feed the = birds. Some can educate others about the use of lead in bullets and = sinkers and how this affects the Eagles. Some can help by lobbing = politicians. Others can donate money or support whatever way they can. = Do what you can to help." Cheers, Chris On 13-Jan-12, at 11:27 PM, Brian Bartlett wrote: The radically "abridged" version of the Eisley event almost reads = like an Aesop's fable rather than an account to be taken as = scientifically grounded, but I can see why Jim is bothered by the idea = of thoughtlessly and needlessly tossing star-fish around. Maybe the = First Nations tale retold by Tuma, about the talking hummingbird that = tried to put out a forest fire, is more helpful here, because it's so = obviously a symbolic or visionary fantasy and nobody is going to read it = literally in the way they would a scientific treatise or even a personal = memoir. Brian From: David & Alison Webster Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 9:37 PM To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca Subject: Re: [NatureNS] re star-thrower story -- moral?? Hi Jim & All, Jan 13, 2012 I agree Jim, if I understand what you are saying. In real life, so far as I know, starfish will not become = stranded above low-low tide, except perhaps by very unlikely mechanisms; = a tidal wave which I suppose might sweep them inland, a very severe = storm that rolled starfish, rock, mussels and byssus threads into a = bundle among other wrack or an earthquake that abruptly raised a section = of beach. But this discussion has perhaps become too serious. If you = search for it, you can find a quote to justify any action. For example, = as explained in a recent issue of National Geographic, one early edition = of the King James Bible omitted a key word from one of the 10 = commandments so that it read "Thou shalt commit adultery.". Presumably = this gave rise to the expression "Praise the Lord". Yt DW, Kentville ----- Original Message ----- From: James W. Wolford To: NatureNS Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 5:59 PM Subject: [NatureNS] re star-thrower story -- moral?? I am having problems with this whole discussion, because of the = evolutionary adaptations of intertidal organisms like these starfishes = -- I can visualize like-minded people who see barnacles "stranded" = during low tides wanting to use backhoes to get them back into the = water. I of course love the point that I think Helene is getting at, = that one or a few who are doing tiny amounts of some activity whose = effect is very little are setting examples for potential followers to = act in concert, but let's find a better example?=20 Cheers from Jim in Wolfville. Begin forwarded message: From: Helene Van Doninck <helene.birdvet@gmail.com> Date: January 13, 2012 4:30:57 PM AST To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca Subject: Re: [NatureNS] Loren Eiseley Reply-To: naturens@chebucto.ns.ca The starfish story is pretty much my daily mantra, and has been = for years. I talk about it to people who think I'm crazy for helping = common species. They all matter, at least to me. Helene On Jan 13, 2012 2:32 PM, "Brian Bartlett" = <bbartlett@eastlink.ca> wrote: Eiseley was a genius of an essayist, memoirist, and nature = writer. The Immense Journey, The Night Country, The Unexpected Universe, = All The Strange Ho